# NASA Official says, "CO2 emissions must be controlled within 10 years." **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035 "2006-02-18T00:24:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/41 "2006-02-19T23:51:38Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > If that’st he case then I suggest we have the government start funneling money towards massive partying. > > There’s a principle in management that you don’t worry about the problems that you can’t fix. If people are showing us that we can’t fix an apocalypse then we can’t afford to worry about it. > > I also however find these doomsday scenarios unlikely. The earth has been through some pretty insane stuff in the past, including massive increases in greenhouse gas and being hit by enormous rocks from space. Do you see a problem with switching to lower emission standards? Maybe replacing old Coal plants with nuclear plants, Subsidizing Solar Panel implementation and development, Wind Farms? Would it hurt to require new vehicles to have far greater gas mileage and reduced emissions? I think these are things we should start on. I also think \*\*Paul \*\* is right in that we should start planning where and how to build Dikes and where we should plan on abandonment. The government should possibly tax incandescent light bulbs to help subsidize Compact Fluorescent and Diode lighting. Perhaps failure to meet Energy Star compliance could result in a Waste Tax and the money could be applied to either rebates on High efficiency models or more research. This is just a list of ideas, please shoot down and add at will. Jim ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/42 "2006-02-20T00:39:56Z")
**Martin** , there is disaster and there is disaster. We can not avert significant climate change and without doubt our continued emissions will make that future change much worse. We can limit the extent of the disaster. My oil refinery analogy again: any fire is a disaster and we are past the point of averting the fire. Buildings will come down. Will all the buildings burn up or some of them? Will some equipment be destroyed or the whole place melt to the ground? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/43 "2006-02-20T00:50:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Martin** , there is disaster and there is disaster. We can not avert significant climate change and without doubt our continued emissions will make that future change much worse. We can limit the extent of the disaster. My oil refinery analogy again: any fire is a disaster and we are past the point of averting the fire. Buildings will come down. Will all the buildings burn up or some of them? Will some equipment be destroyed or the whole place melt to the ground? there is a curious disconnect in the arguments raised by temporizers who first contend that action now would be precipitous because, after all, we are not sure of the anthropogenisis, and then flip to, hey, it’s already too late, no point in changing our feckless ways, let’s just buy sea front property in the Delaware Water Gap… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/44 "2006-02-20T01:57:24Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > there is a curious disconnect in the arguments raised by temporizers who first contend that action now would be precipitous because, after all, we are not sure of the anthropogenisis, and then flip to, hey, it’s already too late, no point in changing our feckless ways, let’s just buy sea front property in the Delaware Water Gap… Someone needs to contact Wiki and post this as THE classic example of ‘strawman’. Plus its actually kind of lucid…for Alaric on a sunday that is. 😉 Seriously, the disconnect is with people who conflate what we know (global climactic change seems to be happening), with theories as to why (i.e. this is caused either solely or mainly by anthropogenisis), with theories on what it will mean (mini-Ice age, global warming with huge ice melts and rising seas, both, neither, something else entirely), with pure conjecture (i.e. there is actually anything we can reasonably do about it short of going back to the caves and giving up on this whole ‘technology’ stuff…see, I can do ‘strawman’ too 😛 ). The science just isn’t there (IMHO) to warrent a major disruption in our economy that would take place if we tried to cut our emmissions to the point it would actually make a difference…if it even WOULD make a difference, which I tend to doubt. -XT ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/45 "2006-02-20T03:35:35Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > If scientists are making fact-supported claims that there’s nothing we can do to avert disaster, Paul is right, it would be folly to waste resources trying to avert disaster. That’s a might big claim to hang on such a small word as “if.” Why not go the next step and actually see _if_ such is actually the case, cause as far as I see, only Paul and his familiar (that would be you) are making it. **Paul** ’s raised this false dichotomy on several occasions and has so far taken the “Aldebaran defense” (“my word is my cite”). So, pretty please… with sugar on top… gimme a taste… just a little taste… of a “fact-supported claim that there’s nothing we can do to avert disaster.” Otherwise, as long as you’re pulling things from a dark and moist orifice, let me know if you find the remote to my TV. Haven’t seen it in days. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/46 "2006-02-20T05:59:37Z")
- The science just isn’t there (IMHO) to warrent a major disruption in our economy that would take place if we tried to cut our emmissions to the point it would actually make a difference…if it even WOULD make a difference, which I tend to doubt.\* I don’t understand how you game this out. It seems to me that we can construct an outcome matrix as follows. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/47 "2006-02-20T06:10:10Z")
Can I assume more will be forthcoming? 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/48 "2006-02-20T09:54:19Z")
So, am I to take it that the US conservative position has changed (or is in the process of changing) from “there is no anthropogenic (man made) climate change” to “we’re now too far along to do anything whatsoever about it”? Christ, that was quick. Incidentally, stabilising CO[sub]2[/sub] levels at somewhere below the dangerous ‘tipping point’ of around 500ppm (we’re now at 378ppm and rising by 3ppm per year) is [not impossible](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3975325.stm). But we have to start somewhere. Indeed, if climate change is such a [threat to US national security](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1153513,00.html), might we see island nations who would be wiped out by rising sea levels take it upon themselves to forcibly limit big emitters like airports by sending operatives to bomb one every other week? After all, what have they got to lose? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/49 "2006-02-20T13:22:42Z")
oops-network went out just then. (I don’t know how to get wysiwyg on this, so I’ll be sure to preview so: column A (possible climate change events) Column B.(Possible societal responses 1. ``` Temps rise catastropically ``` ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/50 "2006-02-20T13:22:42Z")
oops-network went out just then. (I don’t know how to get wysiwyg on this, so I’ll be sure to preview so: column A (possible climate change events) Column B.(Possible societal responses 1. ``` Temps rise catastropically ``` ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/51 "2006-02-20T13:23:51Z")
dammit, I’m stil not ready. I’d better go into some other prgram and come back and pste it in. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/52 "2006-02-20T14:26:21Z")
1. Profit!!! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/53 "2006-02-20T18:23:49Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > The First Rule of Holes comes to mind : When you’re at the bottom of a hole, _stop digging_. Sadly no less true when you didn’t even mean to be in the hole, and you don’t even know you’re the one holding the shovel. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/54 "2006-02-20T18:46:10Z")
Some good suggestions by **What Exit?** there. Vastly increased energy efficiency, with resulting lower CO2 emissions, is both doable, and a win-win from every perspective. Think of it the Republican way – it’s like a big tax cut for everyone. So why wait? Ironic indeed, by the way, that the White House is willing to invest a trillion in the speculation that Iraq can be made over as a democracy, but not willing to invest a trillion to save Florida from becoming a strictly underwater civilization. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/55 "2006-02-20T20:35:43Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > White House… [snip]… is not willing to invest a trillion to save Florida from becoming a strictly underwater civilization. Sounds like yet another “win-win” situation to me! ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/56 "2006-02-20T22:36:00Z")
Unfortunately, it’ll take a lot more sea level rise to flood Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/57 "2006-02-21T02:54:52Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > So, am I to take it that the US conservative position has changed (or is in the process of changing) from “there is no anthropogenic (man made) climate change” to “we’re now too far along to do anything whatsoever about it”? > > Christ, that was quick. If you are commenting on my comments, I claim innocence. I have never heard anyone but me asking about what proportion of resources ought to go to reduce pollution and how much for buying sandbags and bilge pumps. I admit I could be the sharp edge of a new Conservative argument, but if I am, I want a dime every time they ask my questions. I for one would be happy to know which course of action would be the best. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/58 "2006-02-21T03:31:53Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > I admit I could be the sharp edge of a new Conservative argument, but if I am, I want a dime every time they ask my questions. > > I for one would be happy to know which course of action would be the best. Don’t quit your job just yet. This just ripped from today’s headlines: > [@President Bush](#): > > On Tuesday, Bush plans to visit the Energy Department’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colo., to talk about speeding the development of biofuels. > > The lab, with a looming $28 million budget shortfall, had announced it was cutting its staff by 32 people, including eight researchers. But in advance of Bush’s visit, Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman over the weekend directed the transfer of $5 million to the private contractor that runs the lab, so the jobs can be saved. > > The department “has been informed that the NREL lab director will use these funds to immediately restore all of the jobs that were cut earlier this month due to budget shortfalls,” the department said in a statement Monday. Aparently it’s not a matter of resources, but of political will. In anticipation of \*\* Paul\*\*'s inevitable contention that something will have to be sacrificed for such largess, I would suggest the subsidy on SUVs as a good place to start. [Full Story Here](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060221/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_energy) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/59 "2006-02-21T12:14:48Z")
Really guys, I am asking a honest question. Honestly. This one did not even come from The Voices Inside My Head. Something must be done, but what exactly? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035/60 "2006-02-21T12:30:57Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Really guys, I am asking a honest question. Honestly. This one did not even come from The Voices Inside My Head. > > Something must be done, but what exactly? [This guy’s](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3975325.stm) 15 key strategies always impress me when he appears on the news over here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-official-says-co2-emissions-must-be-controlled-within-10-years/345035.md?page=4)