# Nasa Paper: "Warp Field Mechanics 101" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135 "2011-11-07T03:56:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/1 "2011-11-07T03:56:38Z")
> **[20110015936\_2011016932.pdf](https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110015936_2011016932.pdf)** > > 45.25 KB > [@](#): > > Abstract: > Warp Field Mechanics 101 > Dr. Harold “Sonny” White > NASA Johnson Space Center > 2101 NASA Parkway, MC EP4 > Houston, TX 77058 > e-mail: > [harold.white-1@nasa.gov](mailto:harold.white-1@nasa.gov) > > This paper will begin with a short review of the Alcubierre warp drive metric and describes how the > phenomenon might work based on the original paper. The canonical form of the metric was developed > and published in [6] which provided key insight into the field potential and boost for the field which > remedied a critical paradox in the original Alcubierre concept of operations. A modified concept of > operations based on the canonical form of the metric that remedies the paradox is presented and > discussed. The idea of a warp drive in higher dimensional space-time (manifold) will then be briefly > considered by comparing the null-like geodesics of the Alcubierre metric to the Chung-Freese metric to > illustrate the mathematical role of hyperspace coordinates. The net effect of using a warp drive > “technology” coupled with conventional propulsion systems on an exploration mission will be discussed > using the nomenclature of early mission planning. Finally, an overview of the warp field interferometer > test bed being implemented in the Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory: Eagleworks (APPL:E) at the > Johnson Space Center will be detailed. While warp field mechanics has not had a “Chicago Pile” moment, > the tools necessary to detect a modest instance of the phenomenon are near at hand. It ends with a quote from _Peter Pan_, “2nd star to the right, straight on till morning”. So, a warp field interferometer test bed is being implemented and a least some think that they may be on the verge of a “Chicago Pile” moment, and the author is envisioning interstellar travel. I don’t have the knowledge to judge something like this. I do know that just because a paper is on NASA’s servers doesn’t mean that it’s not a bunch of hooey. Anyone here knowledgeable enough to say if this is conceivably possible, or is it akin to perpetual motion? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/2 "2011-11-07T04:28:17Z")
Said quote from Peter Pan is also a line from one of the Star Trek movies, quoted by Captain Kirk. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/3 "2011-11-07T04:49:01Z")
Okay. I searched it and came up with _Peter Pan_, but _Star Trek_ does make more sense in this context. Anyway, that’s completely unimportant to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/4 "2011-11-07T05:21:16Z")
How do we know they didn’t invent the thing? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/5 "2011-11-07T05:52:22Z")
The very little I’ve read about the Alcubierre warp gives me the impression that it’s theoretically possible, but that it requires the ability to manipulate such extreme masses, energies, or speeds that it will never be doable by us. Not unlike time travel. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/6 "2011-11-07T11:31:56Z")
davidm: Oh, yes, but that was the only contribution I could make. And Kirk was quoting Pan, anyhow. Sunspace’s point is quite valid, but I still retain hope. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/7 "2011-11-07T17:38:11Z")
> [@simster](#): > > How do we know they didn’t invent the thing? Hello computer? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/8 "2011-11-07T18:39:09Z")
From what little I understand of the paper (and it’s very little) the claim is that they may have found a way around the shortcomings of the original Alcubierre idea. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/9 "2011-11-07T18:43:56Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > davidm: Oh, yes, but that was the only contribution I could make. And Kirk was quoting Pan, anyhow. > > Sunspace’s point is quite valid, but I still retain hope. I hope I didn’t come off as snarky with my remark about your contribution’s importance to this thread. I certainly didn’t mean it that way. I just didn’t want the thread to get hijacked into Peter Pan versus Star Trek. In fact, you actually did add something by pointing out what was likely the intended context. It reinforces the idea that the author really is thinking about a Star Trek like warp drive. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/10 "2011-11-08T04:31:57Z")
Cosmology grad student here. This smells like bullshit to me. Yes, the Alcubierre metric is, as far as pure GR is concerned, a valid metric. But the proposed experiment fails to address except by the briefest mentions the fundamental problem: creating negative energy density. No one knows how to do this, and the “capacitor ring” that exists in their diagram sure as hell won’t do it. Charge the capacitors all you like, with whatever current or charged particle you want. It’s positive energy density. There is significant theoretical evidence, from the mathematical foundations of field theory that underlie the highly verified results of quantum mechanics, that creating anything more than a whisper of negative energy density is simply not possible. So why is NASA hosting this paper? Because there is the slight chance that someone pursuing this method might discover something, even if it’s not what they set out to find. Also, it looks to be connected with the recent 100 Year Starship conference on human space travel and colonization. I’ve been unable to find if this Dr. Harold “Sonny” White has any academic affiliations, or even where he got his doctorate. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/11 "2011-11-08T05:08:02Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > So why is NASA hosting this paper? Because there is the slight chance that someone pursuing this method might discover something, even if it’s not what they set out to find. You say that like it is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/12 "2011-11-08T14:25:30Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The very little I’ve read about the Alcubierre warp gives me the impression that it’s theoretically possible, but that it requires the ability to manipulate such extreme masses, energies, or speeds that it will never be doable by us. Not unlike time travel. Thats always been my impression too. It may just be that they think they have come up with a experiment (and or trick to work around the negative energy density problem) where they think they can create and measure this “warp field”. Or, in other words, even though making a practical warp drive may be for all practical purposes impossible, it still might be a measurable lab effect, which would still get the physics and math guys all excited. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/13 "2011-11-08T16:25:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You say that like it is a bad thing. If I implied that, I was mistaken. There should be as a matter of course research into things believed impossible, because the beliefs might be wrong. I wish Dr. White all the luck in the world in his test. But until I see a demonstration, I remain extremely skeptical that a ring of capacitors can produce any negative energy density whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/14 "2011-11-10T07:03:05Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > I’ve been unable to find if this Dr. Harold “Sonny” White has any academic affiliations, or even where he got his doctorate. I wonder if he cut from the same cloth as [Hugo de Garis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_de_Garis), who I discovered while he was at Utah State University. His main accomplishment seems to have been dreaming big and using words that made people think “he sure is smart, maybe what he’s talking about isn’t pure crap; maybe I’m just not smart enough to understand his brilliance”. I’ll have to file his name with de Garis’s and keep a watch for future activity. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/15 "2011-11-10T11:36:42Z")
Thanks **Spacial Rift 47**. I was hoping that someone like you would respond. I guess what confused me is that, given my limited understanding, it seems to be saying that he believes it can be done with a **positive** energy density. One of the diagrams (on page 31 of the PDF, but labeled as page 21 on the document) states: [quote] [ul] [li]The figure depicts a modified Michelson-Morley Interferometer setup that makes use of a 1 cm diameter toroidal-ring of positive energy density on one leg of the interferometer.[/li] [li]a He-Ne laser beam(λ = 633 nm) is split allowing one part of the beam to pass through the center of the ring and hence the spherical warp field region.[/li] [li]This warp field region will induce a relative phase shift between the split beams that could be detectable provided the magnitude of the phase shift is sufficient.[/ul][/li][/quote] It seems to assume that the effect will be produced with a toroidal-ring of positive energy. Is he simply wrong about this? Does the paper give his reasons for believing this? Am I just completely misunderstanding the whole thing (a real possibility)? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/16 "2011-11-10T11:47:15Z")
Unless I’m misunderstanding, the proposed apparatus is simply for _detecting_ a volume of negative energy, if any should happen to be there; not creating one. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/17 "2014-04-22T14:17:25Z")
Whoops. Wrong [zombie] thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nasa-paper-warp-field-mechanics-101/602135/18 "2014-04-22T16:27:36Z")
There is a [new thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=721455) discussing this. Closing the zombie.