# NASCAR and Conservatives **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732 "2018-05-24T15:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/21 "2018-05-24T22:26:49Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > Now they just have to have the profile of an American car. I think the three manufacturers in NASCAR these days are Ford, Chevrolet, and Toyota. And last I checked, the profiles of the cars were identical, with only details like the fake headlights and fake grill to make them look anything like the production vehicles. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > NASCAR has been able to promote itself as the true American racing circuit, something the Indy side perhaps ceded to them. Open wheel cars are typically made in Italy with Japanese engines and are driven by Brazilians. There just isn’t as much for a patriotic Merkin to cheer for, even on Memorial Day weekend at Indianapolis, as there is at almost any NASCAR race. As for open-wheel racing, there was a schism some years back. Tony George (who was head of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway) wanted the sport to go in a different direction from CART (which sanctioned the series and all the other races). He formed the Indy Racing League with the goal of showcasing oval tracks and American drivers. All it really did was to dilute the talent and interest in open-wheel racing at a time when NASCAR was already gaining popularity. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/22 "2018-05-24T23:36:41Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Whereas, in NHRA there are several, as well many women, including the reigning top fuel champion, and there is no “ladies tee” bias. All drivers compete equally. I’ve wondered about that from time to time–was that something that happened organically, or did it have anything to do with the fact that John Force had daughters, and nothing was ever going to keep John Force from having his kids race? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/23 "2018-05-24T23:52:13Z")
Are you telling me that Toyota doesn’t sell a rear wheel drive, v8, 4 speed, 3800 lb, carbeurated (until 2012…12! for fucks sake, 2012!) Camry? If they would just call it the Toyota NASCAR, I’d be less annoyed. But to even pretend it’s a camry is just so ludicrous. Same gripe with Ford and Chevy, but at least they DO sell giant rwd v8 cars. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/24 "2018-05-25T00:09:23Z")
ITSM that people are reading the OP wrong. They are replying as if the OP had said “why is there such a strong association between NASCAR and conservatives?” or “why is the NASCAR fanbase so conservative/why are conservatives so into NASCAR?” Whereas I read the OP as using NASCAR as a _metaphor_ for what he thinks is wrong with conservatism. He thinks that NASCAR is all about the false pretense that these cars are really “stock” cars while under the hood they are actually something completely different, and that similarly, conservatism is all about the false pretense that America is the greatest country in the world while under the hood we actually suck because we don’t have single-payer universal health care, we don’t ban guns, and we imprison too many black people. At least, I _think_ that’s what he means. I could be wrong, because he didn’t elaborate on his point much. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/25 "2018-05-25T01:15:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > It may just be that there are always outliers. I can picture hardcore NASCAR fans listening to Red Sox talk radio and thinking, “those people need to get a life!” 😃 I was in the press building for a race weekend and LOUDLY AND FREQUENTLY complained about my beloved Red Sox with several other people. There were many stares. Not because we were disturbing them but because we were talking about baseball. TBF, we were extra heated up because my favorite player was traded. “Oh, Jeff Gordon is over there? Who cares? I WANT NOMAR BACK!” There certainly are a lot more confederate flags flying at stock car events, even way up north where we were ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WAR. The confusing of heritage with culture, with thinking you have to support ancestors’ beliefs to remember their sacrifices, the refusal to accept change is the conservative cross over to me. I do understand the desire for constancy but what makes me liberal, I think, is the desire for my definition of fairness even if it upsets the status quo, the “that’s just how we do things.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/26 "2018-05-25T01:39:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Kinda like how country and western music used to be about white boys going to prison. I thought it was about chugging moonshine ; mourning babies done left the singer/songwriter, Lord and ropin’ steer (which I’m like 95% sure is slang for fucking a tractor) ? ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/27 "2018-05-25T04:48:16Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > ITSM that people are reading the OP wrong. They are replying as if the OP had said “why is there such a strong association between NASCAR and conservatives?” or “why is the NASCAR fanbase so conservative/why are conservatives so into NASCAR?” Whereas I read the OP as using NASCAR as a _metaphor_ for what he thinks is wrong with conservatism. He thinks that NASCAR is all about the false pretense that these cars are really “stock” cars while under the hood they are actually something completely different, and that similarly, conservatism is all about the false pretense that America is the greatest country in the world while under the hood we actually suck because we don’t have single-payer universal health care, we don’t ban guns, and we imprison too many black people. At least, I _think_ that’s what he means. I could be wrong, because he didn’t elaborate on his point much. Yeah pretty much, but without the idea that America sucks. I think there is a metaphor for the idea that feelings matter more than facts. We can feel that these are production cars even though they aren’t. Just like we can feel that taxes and crime are increasing, and that feeling trumps (hah) reality. Sometimes it feels as though liberals are metaphorically saying “those headlights are just decals” and thinking it will make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/28 "2018-05-25T05:20:45Z")
And yes, I know that liberals have their own baggage as well. Put grits on a menu but call it polenta and liberals will literally and metaphorically eat it up. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/29 "2018-05-25T05:36:04Z")
OK, so in essence I agree with the OP. To me, it seems like something is missing: Why? Why are so many Americans so ready to make their decisions based on information that’s blatantly, almost comically false? My reflex/default response is “because they’re stupid, they have to be, otherwise none of this makes any sense”. I don’t want that to be right. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/30 "2018-05-25T10:58:39Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I thought it was about chugging moonshine ; mourning babies done left the singer/songwriter, Lord and ropin’ steer (which I’m like 95% sure is slang for fucking a tractor) ? And don’t even ask what double-clutching means. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/31 "2018-05-25T14:55:08Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > Yeah pretty much, but without the idea that America sucks. I think there is a metaphor for the idea that feelings matter more than facts. We can feel that these are production cars even though they aren’t. Just like we can feel that taxes and crime are increasing, and that feeling trumps (hah) reality. > > Sometimes it feels as though liberals are metaphorically saying “those headlights are just decals” and thinking it will make a difference. This is ridiculous, no NASCAR fan actually thinks that the race cars are production cars or that the stickers are actual headlights. There is also plenty of feelings matter more than facts on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/32 "2018-05-25T15:00:03Z")
Try taking the stickers off and see how people react. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/33 "2018-05-25T15:16:23Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This is ridiculous, no NASCAR fan actually thinks that the race cars are production cars or that the stickers are actual headlights. > There is also plenty of feelings matter more than facts on both sides. They don’t _think_ they _feel_. Just like they feel that crime is getting worse and that taxes are historically high. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/34 "2018-05-25T15:26:58Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > YWe can feel that these are production cars even though they aren’t. Just like we can feel that taxes and crime are increasing, and that feeling trumps (hah) reality. No NASCAR fan feels that these are production cars. They’re well aware of the history of racing and aren’t concerned with it like you seem to be. From that shaky foundation you’ve jumped to an unsupported conclusion. Sometimes a car is just a car. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/35 "2018-05-25T15:33:17Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > They don’t _think_ they _feel_. Just like they feel that crime is getting worse and that taxes are historically high. We’re in GD - what percent of NASCAR fans feel that they are production cars? IOW, cite? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/36 "2018-05-25T15:35:01Z")
How did driving round and round in circles help with bootlegging? Did they wait until the cops got dizzy before escaping? ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/37 "2018-05-25T15:45:00Z")
You want a cite? It might just take a while to commission a poll. Maybe while I’m at it we can find out how many wrestling fans _feel_ wrestling is real. I’ll also ask them if they _feel_ Obama was born in Kenya. Meanwhile, here is a [quote from the “Mustang” team] ([Ford used F1 experience to develop Mustang for NASCAR Cup Series](https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/ford-used-f1-experience-to-develop-nascar-cup-mustang-1027716/)): > [@](#): > > Ford added it was pleased that Chevrolet introduced the Camaro for the 2018 season because it gave it another recognizable name to pit the Mustang against. > > “It [the Mustang] was based on two things – the excitement that comes with Mustang and the relevance to have the product in the top series in NASCAR – and we also felt we could get the most competitive car out," said Rushbook. > > "We had started our new Mustang before Chevy came for submission with their Camaro and we were actually very happy when we saw that Chevy was bringing the Camaro, because we knew with our Mustang it would be great to have those two nameplates on track at the Cup level racing each other.” They are going out of their way to make it look like it’s a Mustang vs a Camaro. They even talk about “having the product in the top series”. I wonder where I can buy that product? And they “started our new Mustang”. Not “we worked on a new car we could slap some Mustang decals on”. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/38 "2018-05-25T15:49:22Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > How did driving round and round in circles help with bootlegging? Did they wait until the cops got dizzy before escaping? It’s a good strategy in the south. Everyone else is turning right. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/39 "2018-05-25T16:47:01Z")
[quote=“Batano, post:37, topic:814732”] Meanwhile, here is a > [@](#): > > ([Ford used F1 experience to develop Mustang for NASCAR Cup Series](https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/ford-used-f1-experience-to-develop-nascar-cup-mustang-1027716/)): They are going out of their way to make it look like it’s a Mustang vs a Camaro. They even talk about “having the product in the top series”. And? This is Marketing 101. You associate the product with winning. It garners fan interest and brand loyalty. But you haven’t come close to showing that your premise is true - that fans believe that NASCAR vehicles have anything directly to do with the nameplates they wear. Fans follow the changes implemented by the standardized [Car of Tomorrow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_of_Tomorrow) and [Gen 6](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_6_(NASCAR)) race cars. The majority of NASCAR fans I’ve met are fairly sophisticated when it comes to racing. This has little to do with their politics as far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732/40 "2018-05-25T16:51:29Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > You want a cite? Yes, please. That’s how we roll in GD. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-and-conservatives/814732.md?page=3)