# NASCAR cars don't drift? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 8, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751 "2009-03-08T19:00:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/21 "2009-03-09T22:57:01Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > Well, I disagree. Drifting is the fastest way around certain corners. Rally cars “drift” around a corner because it sweeps away the loose material of the road, and allows the tires to find better purchase on the underlying, harder, surface, not because the turns are tighter or to position themselves for acceleration. In addition, attempting to grip on a surface made out of gravel, sand, mud , ice and snow is basically impossible. I would be much faster around a course if I could actually grip, but it just ain’t happening. The drift is a function of the surface, though, not of the course layout. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/22 "2009-03-10T00:58:58Z")
> [@Diz](#): > > That’s where my aerodynamics caveat comes in 🙂 > Race cars rely so much on downforce at those speeds that getting even a little sideways will mess up the airflow and take away that added grip, making it almost impossible to recover from a slide. But if you used a car that wasn’t designed to produce downforce, you could theoretically drift at 200mph. Of course it would be incredibly dangerous and difficult… There’s been much debate in the Grand Prix Legends community about the realism of its physics model, but you can drift like crazy in that sim as downforce is definitely not a factor. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/23 "2009-03-10T01:13:01Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > Rally cars “drift” around a corner because it sweeps away the loose material of the road, and allows the tires to find better purchase on the underlying, harder, surface 😃 , just in case you’re kidding. Otherwise, I’d like to see some citie titie for that idea. Please. Oh, you mean for the cars _behind_ the sweeper pilot! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/24 "2009-03-10T01:22:57Z")
He’s half right. Drifting on dirt/gravel surfaces causes loose material to build up against the side of the tyre, which retards sideways motion. Rally cars aren’t fitted with ABS for similar reasons; on loose surfaces, you _have_ to lock the wheels to slow down quickly, because it allows dirt/gravel to build up in front of the tire contact patches. So, drifting sweeps the loose material of the road, but that’s in order to “push” against it, not to expose a better surface underneath. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/25 "2009-03-10T01:28:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Look at it this way: the right way up, an F1 car produces (say) 750 lbs. of downforce at 180 mph, plus its own weight- say, another 750 lbs., for a total of 750 lbs. of keep-wheels-on-groundness. Just for the record, according to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_car) (and this jibes with my memory), F1 cars are already creating twice their weight in downforce at only 118mph. Weight=downforce by about 80mph. Most recent [figures](http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?threadid=98037) I could find have the cars generating about 3,300 pounds of downforce in the 2006 season. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/26 "2009-03-10T03:08:01Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Just for the record, according to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_car) (and this jibes with my memory), F1 cars are already creating twice their weight in downforce at only 118mph. Weight=downforce by about 80mph. > > Most recent [figures](http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?threadid=98037) I could find have the cars generating about 3,300 pounds of downforce in the 2006 season. The figures I used were just examples. It still renders the “car on ceiling” thing impossible, though. Gordon Murray wrote an article about it in the McLaren technical bulletin back in 1992 or 1993 or so. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/27 "2009-03-10T03:51:49Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > 😃 , just in case you’re kidding. > Otherwise, I’d like to see some citie titie for that idea. Please. > Oh, you mean for the cars _behind_ the sweeper pilot! No, I am not kidding, and I am all right, despite what **RNATB** thinks. How about from here: [http://www.team-oneil.com/press1.htm](http://www.team-oneil.com/press1.htm) > [@](#): > > Sliding the tires sideways across the surface sweeps away the loose gravel and gets the tire down to the better grip below the loose surface. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/28 "2009-03-10T04:15:24Z")
BTW, I didn’t mean to come off all snarky to **RTNATB**. Throw a 😉 in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/29 "2009-03-10T04:58:58Z")
Only in Tokyo. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/30 "2009-03-10T05:40:32Z")
Looks fun, lots of smoke. Not racing. Strictly entertainment. If the wheel is spinning, the car isn’t moving forward _at the optimal rate_. That is why F1 and “other” racers don’t “drift” (on purpose, at least). They are racing, not putting on a show. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/31 "2009-03-10T07:35:53Z")
This could be another of those airplane-on-a-treadmill things. I’m thinking of it in terms of a coordinate system centered on the car, and pointing in the car’s direction of travel (and the car will not always be facing the same direction it’s moving). In order to change direction, you need to generate a sideways force. You want that sideways force to be as great as possible, to make the turn in the shortest amount of time. So whether drifting is benefical comes down to this. Is possible for a car to generate more sideways force by pointing off-line and spinning the drive wheels than by keeping the wheels rolling at their best slip angle? I’m sure there’s more to it. (Can the drifting car also generate enough forward force to maintain the optimum cornering speed?) That’s as far as I’ve gotten so far, though. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/32 "2009-03-10T13:01:29Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Looks fun, lots of smoke. Not racing. Strictly entertainment. > > If the wheel is spinning, the car isn’t moving forward _at the optimal rate_. > > That is why F1 and “other” racers don’t “drift” (on purpose, at least). They are racing, not putting on a show. This isn’t really about show-off drifting, which _can_ be pretty cool by the way. it’s about drifting through a turn in a race, as a technique to get out of the turn faster. Read the rest of the thread and you’ll see mentions of racers who do drift, on ourpose. A long time ago I read a book by an english race car driver (sports cars) about racing and techniques, such as “clipping apexes”, “heel and toe” handling of brake and accelerator, drifting and other tricky stuff. It was written, I think, in the "50s, and times have changed, but it was not about show drifting. I wish I could remember the author. Besides, drifting, like wrestling, is _fun_. 😛 BTW; how’d you do at Monte Carlo last year? ---
**Author:** ![Goblinboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3be4f8/32.png) [@Goblinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goblinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/33 "2009-03-10T20:46:49Z")
[Drifting in Nascar from last weeks race in Las Vegas](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3cwVTpUPHc) Not intentional, but not something you normally see at 180mph either. Watch the clip the whole way through to see the drifting. The shot from the following car is probably the best. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/34 "2009-03-10T23:19:24Z")
Goblinboy: Exactly, precisely what I was thinking of above. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751/35 "2009-03-10T23:44:55Z")
> [@Goblinboy](#): > > [Drifting in Nascar from last weeks race in Las Vegas](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3cwVTpUPHc) > > Not intentional, but not something you normally see at 180mph either. Watch the clip the whole way through to see the drifting. The shot from the following car is probably the best. I gotta give it to the driver, he did drift the car. Intentional or not. The beginning was oops, but the recovery was pure skill. It could have been messy. I don’t follow NASCAR, so I know nothing about the driver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nascar-cars-dont-drift/488751.md?page=1)