# Natalie Holloway **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297 "2008-02-05T00:20:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/141 "2008-02-20T18:14:05Z")
[QUOTE=bufftabby] Jeez, everybody knows sluts deserve to be raped. Only nice girls get to say no. Once a girl says “yes” to one guy, it applies to all of them. [/tonguecheek] [/QUOTE] Some of the slut-bashing in this thread is fucking disgusting, but I guess that’s the dirty flip side of Missing White Girl reporting (which is real and tacky and sad, but how the hell can you blame parents for wanting as much publicity as possible if it might help find their child?). How ‘bad’ must a female murder victim be before she gets the glorious NHI tag (No Humans Involved– usually reserved for prostitutes)? Not a virgin? Interested in trying drugs? Regular drug user? Drunk? Considering having sex with a guy she just met? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/142 "2008-02-20T18:36:31Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] Some of the slut-bashing in this thread is fucking disgusting, but I guess that’s the dirty flip side of Missing White Girl reporting (which is real and tacky and sad, but how the hell can you blame parents for wanting as much publicity as possible if it might help find their child?). How ‘bad’ must a female murder victim be before she gets the glorious NHI tag (No Humans Involved– usually reserved for prostitutes)? Not a virgin? Interested in trying drugs? Regular drug user? Drunk? Considering having sex with a guy she just met? [/QUOTE] Who do you see doing this “slut-bashing”? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/143 "2008-02-20T19:21:30Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] How ‘bad’ must a female murder victim be before she gets the glorious NHI tag (No Humans Involved– usually reserved for prostitutes)? [/QUOTE] I really hate to see that shit. Even prostitutes have mothers that love them. Everyones always got to be judging each other. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/144 "2008-02-20T19:31:55Z")
I’m not sure if this is “slut bashing” per se, but it’s kind of disturbing to me. [QUOTE=Duckster] I’m sorry that Natalie Holloway is dead. I extend my sympathies to her family and friends. However, I know someone who taught her in high school and she was far, far from being a “nice” girl. [/QUOTE] This whole dichotomy between “nice girl” and “slut”–it’s just so dated. And creepy. [QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Why would you need a date rape drug for a girl already drunk and drug addled, who heads to the beach with a hot guy she just met- do her parents really think her intent was to go fishing? [/QUOTE] Because drunk girls always say yes. And you can’t rape the willing, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/145 "2008-02-20T19:56:48Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] Because drunk girls always say yes. And you can’t rape the willing, right? [/QUOTE] I cannot fathom a legitmate reason why Boozie Suzie would leave a club with good personal friends to go off **alone** on a beach with a hot guy she just met in a foreign country, other than sex- can you? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/146 "2008-02-20T20:05:06Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I cannot fathom a legitmate reason why Boozie Suzie would leave a club with good personal friends to go off **alone** on a beach with a hot guy she just met in a foreign country, other than sex- can you? [/QUOTE] But didn’t she leave with THREE guys? Does that mean she was up for group sex? If she’d been a guy would he be up for gay sex? I have been in strange lands and gone to strange guys’ places, albeit with friends. The most it led to was heavy petting. The least? Conversation over more drinks. Sex can be considered up until the last minute or a no-go from moment one. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/147 "2008-02-20T20:20:34Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] But didn’t she leave with THREE guys? Does that mean she was up for group sex? If she’d been a guy would he be up for gay sex? I have been in strange lands and gone to strange guys’ places, albeit with friends. The most it led to was heavy petting. The least? Conversation over more drinks. Sex can be considered up until the last minute or a no-go from moment one. [/QUOTE] All very true. However, when someone proposes, with no evidence, that the man involved was covering up the evidence that he raped her, posters are going to respond as if the assertion was that she was too virginal to have willingly chosen to have sex with a stranger. An odd reaction, I understand, but the charge itself was a nonsequitir, being nothing but idle and prurient speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/148 "2008-02-20T20:25:12Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] But didn’t she leave with THREE guys? Does that mean she was up for group sex? If she’d been a guy would he be up for gay sex? I have been in strange lands and gone to strange guys’ places, albeit with friends. The most it led to was heavy petting. The least? Conversation over more drinks. Sex can be considered up until the last minute or a no-go from moment one. [/QUOTE] I don’t know her- perhaps with three guys, a girl and a horse. I have no idea, and I don’t know what happened, just that generally in that type scenario you wouldn’t leave without any of your friends accompanying you unless you were going to have sex. You wouldn’t want/need to be alone with strange males if you were going souvenir shopping, right? Mom insisting the only possible explanation if her daughter did have sex with one or all three was gang rape is laughable. Was does that tell you that she would go off alone in the dark in a foreign country with one or three strangers? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/149 "2008-02-20T20:34:25Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I cannot fathom a legitmate reason why Boozie Suzie would leave a club with good personal friends to go off **alone** on a beach with a hot guy she just met in a foreign country, other than sex- can you? [/QUOTE] It would be a stupid idea not to. But at the same time, you can change your mind about having sex at any time. It’s not like rape can’t happen. Yeah, it’s a bad, bad idea to go off with a stranger and then decide you don’t want to have sex, but it’s not as if women have never been raped by guys they initially wanted to spend some time with. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/150 "2008-02-20T20:37:53Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] It would be a stupid idea not to. But at the same time, you can change your mind about having sex at any time. It’s not like rape can’t happen. Yeah, it’s a bad, bad idea to go off with a stranger and then decide you don’t want to have sex, but it’s not as if women have never been raped by guys they initially wanted to spend some time with. [/QUOTE] Agree- you can know a person for years and have this happen, just chances are much greater if you just met them. And also agree you can change your mind at any time, but its also less likely the guy will say ‘Ok no problem’ if you do if you are shit-faced. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297/151 "2008-02-20T20:57:08Z")
[QUOTE=Aries28] How would classmates know she was or was not planning to have sex with him? [/QUOTE] The question is not “how would they know”? They could testify as to why they thought she was leaving with them, how she was behaving, whether she had left with someone like that before. They could testify as to what their belief was as to why she was leaving. None of that is hearsay. Hearsay is the reporting of a statement made outside of court as proof of the truth of the statement. So, hearsay would be “Joran said that they were leaving to have sex.” Hearsay might also be “Natalie said that they were leaving to have sex,” but I’m not sure whether one of the exceptions to the hearsay rule might apply, because Natalie is not available to appear in court. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-holloway/436297.md?page=7)