# Natalie Portman is the new Thor **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 21, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398 "2019-07-21T13:27:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/121 "2019-07-26T18:34:39Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > In the comics, Unworthy Thor/Odinson gets his arm cut off while Jane is being Thor Goddess of Thunder. So, _yes_, his fingers went away. > > Also I can’t believe people having a problem with Jane being called Thor when she’s being Thor, when Frog Thor has been around as a precedent since forever while Thor was around, and they’re both Thors. Because the comics dont count. Marvel has no canon, and changes stuff at random to excite the fanboys. There’s been an evil Thor, a Zombie thor and etc. Marvel has either no imagination or too much, I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/122 "2019-07-26T18:46:59Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > This is what going mad feels like. We gotta go to the crappy town where _I’m_ a hero. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/123 "2019-07-26T22:41:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont get it. Thor is a name, a person, a deity. Cap picked up the hammer, didnt become Thor. There’s a female Superman- called Supergirl. Monel isnt Superman, despite having his powers. > > How can she become Thor? Grow a beard? Take over his memories? There’s no Norse female deities who can do this? Plenty are cool enuf. > > Or is it just that she picks up the hammer and takes over some of his duties? > > Or is this just Marvel stirring shit up like Cap being Hydra? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, in “the comics” Marvel comics, you can find \*anything \*to prove everything. Marvel has screwed with the canon, timeline and characters so much, that anything can and did happen. Thor was a frog too. needeep. > > So, I am sticking to the films, where they make somewhat more sense. In that, there has always been only one Thor, he was never a mortal doctor, etc, and even when he lost his hammer, he was still Thor. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Because the comics dont count. Marvel has no canon, and changes stuff at random to excite the fanboys. There’s been an evil Thor, a Zombie thor and etc. > > Marvel has either no imagination or too much, I dunno. I don’t know if this is a thread hijack, but I have to ask, Just how many sharks to be jumped are there in the Marvel Universe? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/124 "2019-07-27T02:36:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The frog’s name is Thor. The Asgardian’s name is Thor. The human’s name is Jane. > > “Jane becomes Thor” makes sense in a context where you already have “Donald becomes Thor”. But that’s been out of the comics backstory for a long time, and was explicitly joked at in the movie. Pretty sure\* the frog’s name is Puddlegulp (formerly Simon Walterson), until he transforms with his Mjolnir sliver into Thor the Frog of Thunder. Jane’s name is Jane, until she transforms with Mjolnir into Thor the Goddess of Thunder. It’s pretty much exactly analogous, except the latter involves girl cooties, which obviously cause the fanbois to loose their fucking minds. \*Possibility of an obscure retcon acknowledged, but irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/125 "2019-07-27T08:38:24Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > … > > It’s pretty much exactly analogous, except the latter involves girl cooties, which obviously cause the fanbois to loose their fucking minds. > … I dont see anyone who has a problem with Jane getting the hammer and powers of Thor. Sounds like a interesting film. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/126 "2019-07-27T14:05:43Z")
Well, it’d still go against the movie canon in multiple ways. First, _Ragnarok_ made it clear that, while Mjollnir is a nifty weapon, it’s not the source of Thor’s powers (he’s not the God of Hammers, after all). Second, well, Mjollnir no longer exists. And there’s also whatever problems exist with Jane being Natalie Portman specifically, since many folks think that she specifically didn’t do a very good job with the role. It’s not about “girl cooties”. If you want to make a movie about a woman who takes on the powers of Thor, fine. It’s just that it’d work a lot better with Tessa Thompson’s character, for a variety of reasons (she’s Asgardian and thus able to tap into the same power source as Odinsson, and she did a much better job in her role than Portman did in hers). > [@](#): > > Quoth **Lightray** : > > Pretty sure\* the frog’s name is Puddlegulp (formerly Simon Walterson), until he transforms with his Mjolnir sliver into Thor the Frog of Thunder. > Jane’s name is Jane, until she transforms with Mjolnir into Thor the Goddess of Thunder. OK, then, I stand corrected: Both of those make sense in a context where you’re starting from Donald Blake turning into Thor, but not in a context where Thor is Thor. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/127 "2019-07-29T14:58:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, it’d still go against the movie canon in multiple ways. First, _Ragnarok_ made it clear that, while Mjollnir is a nifty weapon, it’s not the source of Thor’s powers (he’s not the God of Hammers, after all). Second, well, Mjollnir no longer exists. See my post above. While Mjolnir is not the source of Thor’s powers, Odin put the enchantment on it that whoever wields it gets the power of Thor. See: Captain America. As for the hammer being destroyed in this timeline, well, let’s wait to see how they explain it. I really doubt they’re just going to have the hammer exist again with no explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/128 "2019-07-29T15:04:47Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > As linked in post #51, she’s just fucking Thor. I thought they split up? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/129 "2019-07-29T15:06:03Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Odin put the enchantment on it that whoever wields it gets the power of Thor. See: Captain America. You mean Thortain Amerithor. Did Captain America really get the “power of Thor”? He had the power of a swell smashy hammer but he wasn’t controlling lightning and stuff, Thor-style. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/130 "2019-07-29T15:42:51Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > You mean Thortain Amerithor. > > Did Captain America really get the “power of Thor”? He had the power of a swell smashy hammer but he wasn’t controlling lightning and stuff, Thor-style. I haven’t see nit since opening day, but I’m pretty sure he was using lightning. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/131 "2019-07-29T15:47:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > (he’s not the God of Hammers, after all). Comics spoilers: In the aftermath of Jane as _The Mighty Thor_, Mjolnir is destroyed and “Odinson” takes up the Thor mantle again. He has dwarves forge him a neverending number of hammers to use, which tend to get destroyed fairly quickly. So, Thor God of Hammers could actually be a Thor 5 plotline in the MCU if they can keep Helmsworth interested enough. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/132 "2019-07-29T15:51:49Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I haven’t see nit since opening day, but I’m pretty sure he was using lightning. The hammer itself shoots lightning in Capt’s hand but that’s different from Post-Hammer Thor’s control of lightning as seen in Ragnarok and since. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/133 "2019-07-29T15:59:47Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The hammer itself shoots lightning in Capt’s hand but that’s different from Post-Hammer Thor’s control of lightning as seen in Ragnarok and since. It took Thor a thousand years to figure out how to control lightning without using Mjolnir. You’ll have to forgive Cap for not figuring it out in 10 minutes. Edit: It’s also not clear, per Odin’s enchantment, if the powers only last while you are “wielding” Mjolnir. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/134 "2019-07-29T16:06:07Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It took Thor a thousand years to figure out how to control lightning without using Mjolnir. You’ll have to forgive Cap for not figuring it out in 10 minutes. I have no need to forgive or not forgive him. I said that he didn’t demonstrate the “Power of Thor” so much as the “Power of wielding Thor’s magic hammer”. He was a dude (a superpowered dude, though) with a cool weapon rather than a dude imbued with divine powers. If you’re “Thor by virtue of hammer ownership rather than being Odin’s kid”, do you still get the associated Thor powers when your hammer gets crunched into a million pieces? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/135 "2019-07-29T16:13:49Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I have no need to forgive or not forgive him. I said that he didn’t demonstrate the “Power of Thor” so much as the “Power of wielding Thor’s magic hammer”. He was a dude (a superpowered dude, though) with a cool weapon rather than a dude imbued with divine powers. Yes, but that WAS the power of Thor, as far as anyone outside of Odin knew for thousands of years. He was also able to wield Stormbreaker, which according to Thor, if any mere mortal tried to do, their “bodies will crumble as your minds collapse into the madness.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/136 "2019-07-29T17:03:57Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Yes, but that WAS the power of Thor, as far as anyone outside of Odin knew for thousands of years. But now we know better. Which was my point. But we seem to be talking past one another so no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/137 "2019-07-29T18:07:15Z")
Jane becoming Thor and the same with Beta Ray Bill…wasn’t that just due to an enchantment that Odin placed on Mjolinir? And said enchantment was a very recent , relatively speaking, thing? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398/138 "2019-07-29T19:51:20Z")
OK, then, consider super-strength. If Thor Odinsson leaves Mjolnir hanging on a coat rack or whatever, he’s still massively stronger than even serum-enhanced Steve Rogers. During the time that Rogers was wielding Mjolnir, did he have his strength amped up to the same level? Did it end every time he threw it (and then return when he caught it)? Did he keep that strength level until he gave the hammer back to Odinsson? Did he keep it afterwards, and have hundred-ton strength level all of the time that he was growing old with Peggy Carter? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natalie-portman-is-the-new-thor/837398.md?page=6)