Yes, but you see a doctor might leave you with the distinct impression that the procedure is unnecessary - then where would we be?
Well, based upon some rather suprising non-topical digressions, I think we can safely say that we have identified the heretofore ambiguous ‘z’.
Well, pretty much everybody agrees that circumcision is unneccesary. People do it because it’s traditional.
Understood - I just think it’s interesting that focusonz suggests consulting the people starting with those most likely to agree that you should do it.
You say, He says!
Doctors are not prepared to answer the question why. That question is in the realm of culture, religion, society, psychology and include trendy,conformity, and fashion as well. These days, long after the disappearance of the family doctor, doctors are not much more than very very very very qualified mechanics.
I would ask the surgeon about the medical considerations of the procedure. Asking the surgeon about the medical implications of not having the procedure would reveal little. You would ask a medical doctor who has a specialty in VD and other penile maladies for those answers.
I would ask the surgeon and anesthesiologist about the risks associated with anesthesia.
Nice bit of quote mining. It’s more effective if people can’t discover the true context of the quote just by scrolling up a bit.
The order in which you gather information in the form data and opinion is irrelevant to the decision making process.
Oh well. In the case of my son, it wasn’t an issue. There was no medical reason to do it, it wasn’t even suggested by anyone involved, and the only person who could have convinced me would have been a doctor citing medical necessity.
If my son wishes, once he reaches the age of majority, to be circumcised for cultural, religious, societal or psychological reasons up to and including the fact that his uncut penis is unfashionable, well, that will be his call.
Perhaps the procedure continues because we keep asking ignoramuses like priests, rabbis, friends and family.
Um, that’s hardly the point. You quoted someone out of context.
I don’t disagree that circumcision reduces the risk for HIV transmission and almost eliminates penile cancer. But, like phouka said, safe sex and condom use reduces HIV transmission more, and penile cancer is really rare.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m pro-circumcision. I just don’t think it’s neccesary to puff up the pros.
True, though I was curious about the “psychiatrist” suggestion.
It would be if you didn’t consider any of that information until after you had finished collecting it all, but human beings don’t generally function in that way, especially with the information sources described.
In conclusion
I have not argued for or against circumcision nor for or against anesthesia.
It is a matter of personal choice of the parents who should have the child’s best interest in mind. And until such time as the state takes over the responsibility for raising children that is the way it is.
I have offered evidence against the pain felt by the newborn and the lack of need for a new law as there exist plenty of professional people to assist one in determining the need for anesthesia.
In the process of this discussion I have participated in correcting logical errors and distinguished between opinion, beliefs, and facts, providing cites and additional reading which are not biased nor emotionally inflamed by the dynamic of a message board. I only offered information regarding forceps use and abortion to put the topic of newborn pain into a broader perspective.
Finally 'republic15 ’ you should seek information from any and all sources and it behooves you to do so because the statements
are just an attempt to convince you that only ‘Mangetout’ and 'PaulParkhead ’ are the authorities on such matters. The fact is their posts have shown no genuine concern for you (note: their posts says they do not even respect their friends opinion), and besides their posts show that they are certainly no authority, but neither am I. They only have their posting agenda and strategy on this message board of which they cannot speak.
Thank you ‘Captain Amazing’ but when ’ phouka’ offers an authoritative cite but then gives no cites for the way he ‘thinks’ then I will dismiss ’ phouka’ argument as lacking basis in fact as should 'republic15 '
**Wishing the best for you 'republic15 ’ **
Come back to GD but bring you side arm partner It may be needed to fight the ignorance. Metaphorically speaking of course.
focusonz
Wow! I got scare quotes round my name!
Heehee!
Missed edit: OK, I should add that it’s true - there’s only one friend of mine I would trust when it comes to an opinion on whether to lop off my son’s foreskin. That friend is a doctor.
Being the bastion of logic and clear thinking in this debate, would you address the following quotation you seemed to have glossed over?
This is such an obtuse accusation I don’t understand how you could say this seriously. **Mangetout **and PaulParkhead are the ones who first tried to make the point that you can’t cherry pick your sources before you did, hypocritically, in this post–and you are trying to turn right around and accuse them thinking no one will notice?
Thank you for the crediting me with that esteemed title and accepting the attendant responsibility I will address your question!
We were talking about pain! I provided my anecdotal evidence. But I omitted the trauma and pain of my birth. I might add that even though I can’t remember my moment birth I certainly remember the pain and trauma of living until age 27 or there abouts after which wisdom started to kick in and I am happy to share that wisdom on most any subject. And will do so without preconceptions or prejudice or dismissal. A Selfless exercise of wisdom requires empathy.
I then provided a reputable cite well within sense of sight but repeated here below
Basically, until these thalamocortical connections are established and reach maturation a man thinks with his gonads and a mans pain receptors are directly connected to his mouth.
Time heals all wounds and time wounds all heals.
focusonz
I don’t remember mine. I’ve witnessed a few. I was doing a shoot once in the nursery of a large hospital. I was in the nurse’s station, shooting through the glass into the nursery proper. Newborns lined up.
There were FOUR stainless steel “troughs”. Angled small devices used to immobilize and hold infants at a set angle so they could be circumscised. The nurses prepped 4 babies, and one by one in rapid succession, the Doc did them. In 2 minutes it was all over. Oh, the screams. :eek:
Yes. They do feel pain. I don’t know that they remember that pain, but as sited above, I do think that pain informs response and so from there out, they know what pain is. At the age of 8 days, I don’t think they need to feel that level of pain. A numbing agent or block is appropriate. My two cents as a man who has been cut.
Cartooniverse
Oh, foul! Foul!
I am not an authority on this topic, neither do I mean to present myself as one, neither do I have any kind of secret agenda (really, where the hell did that come from? - if you think you’ve identified some secret motives of mine - and you sound like you think you have - please feel free to make them public - I don’t believe I really have any, but I’m not afraid to stand up to accusations).
I just happen to think that a doctor would be a good person to consult when the question is whether or not part of a baby’s penis should be cut off. Understood that there is quite a bit of social and religious inertia regarding this topic - and that will mean some people disagree that a doctor is best qualified to advise, but you can’t please everyone.
Solely in connection to a specific medical matter, I have stated that opinion should come second to that of a doctor - you have inferred from this that I have no respect for a friend’s opinion, period. That’s just plain dishonest and fallacious.
Mentioned in the previous post, I know, but repeated here for emphasis.
Bring it. I have no posting agenda and strategy, other than to say what I think.
You think you’ve identified an agenda ‘of which I cannot speak’. Tell everyone what it is. Go on.