# National Anthems too militaristic (esp. USA, UK, Irish)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 7, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096 "2008-08-07T00:06:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/21 "2008-08-07T03:45:05Z")
[QUOTE=mutantmoose] Yes combat is evil. Do you think that combat is good and should be sought out wherever possible? [/QUOTE] Nice excluded middle there. 🙂 (And btw
 Hi **mutantmoose** 
 nice to see a new face around
hope people aren’t biting you too badly). I think the point \*\*StGermain \*\*was making was that combat / warfare can sometimes be a regretful necessity. I don’t think anyone in this thread is advocating seeking it out
 and indeed most of the anthem lyrics that deal with combat are in the form of defending the homeland, not invading the neighbours. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/22 "2008-08-07T12:22:58Z")
Until the 20th c. most societies would have agreed with the proposition that war was glorious and a justifiable arm of national policy. Most anthems written (or popularised) around that time reflect this. If your political views tend towards the “why can’t we all just get along and learn to like each other?” mindset no doubt you will object to this but most societies won’t be inclined to rewrite them just to placate you. I should learn to live with it. There are worse things to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_Clock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Shot\_Clock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_Clock)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/23 "2008-08-07T12:36:30Z")
My off-topic two cents
given the current political climate in America, I’d rather our national anthem be a somewhat militaristic poem about defending ourselves from the damned British rather than some religious screed like “Battle Hymn of the Republic”, “Onward Christian Soldiers”, “God Bless America” (dear Christ I hate that song
Woody Guthrie hated it too) or, worst of all, “God Bless the USA” . I’m actually surprised that Pat Robertson, et. al., hasn’t made a serious effort to make “God Bless America” the national anthem. I can’t wait for the day that America gets past this current incarnation of the Great Awakening. If we had to change the National Anthem, my vote would be for Chuck Berry’s [Back in the U.S.A.](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/c/chuck+berry/back+in+the+usa_20030894.html) Everything great about America summed up in five short verses. Plus, it’s got a good beat and you can dance to it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/24 "2008-08-07T12:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=Shot Clock] If we had to change the National Anthem, my vote would be for Chuck Berry’s [Back in the U.S.A.](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/c/chuck+berry/back+in+the+usa_20030894.html) Everything great about America summed up in five short verses. Plus, it’s got a good beat and you can dance to it! 🙂 [/QUOTE] I vote for the theme to sanford and son. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/25 "2008-08-07T12:59:47Z")
I think I’d go for [Promised Land](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwuygqCyp4). Apparently he wrote that in prison and the guards confiscated his pencil and paper because they thought he was planning his escape route! > [@](#): > > And btw
 Hi mutantmoose
 nice to see a new face around
hope people aren’t biting you too badly Thanks Apollyon. Won’t be around much longer - my membership runs out soon. I stupidly joined a couple of weeks ago just before going away for a week thus wasting one of my allotted four :smack: ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/26 "2008-08-07T13:56:47Z")
It’s obvious. The countries with peace & love oriented National Anthems are quickly conquered, annexed, annihilated, what have you, by the countries with violent & militaristic ones. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/27 "2008-08-07T14:04:50Z")
[QUOTE=Shot Clock] some religious screed like “Battle Hymn of the Republic” [/QUOTE] At Mass the other week there was the regrettable pairing of “Make Me A Channel of Your Peace” at offertory followed up by the Battle Hymn of the Republic at recessional. And we were asked to pray for American soldiers in Iraq. I was so befuddled I had to walk out during Battle Hymn of the Republic. “Battle Hymn”–jeezum what an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/28 "2008-08-07T14:13:49Z")
Seconded what **kunilou** and **Apollyon** said. And you think _The Star-Spangled Banner_ is bad? Consider _Maryland, My Maryland_, the state song, which is about a riot by Confederate sympathizers against Federal troops in 1861: “The despot’s heel is on thy shore, Maryland! His torch is at thy temple door, Maryland! Avenge the patriotic gore That flecked the streets of Baltimore, And be the battle queen of yore, Maryland! My Maryland!..” Ugh. Fortunately, I don’t think it’s sung all that often. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/29 "2008-08-07T14:21:46Z")
Because they are national anthems, not national campfire songs. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/30 "2008-08-07T14:22:09Z")
The reason why the National Anthem is important, and why it needs to continue being performed and listened to, is because we need to _never forget_ the sacrifices made by the men who founded this country and enabled all of the freedoms that we enjoy today. Most of us here are descended from people who came to America because if they didn’t, they were going to starve to death or be killed. You can say whatever you want about American “imperialism” or whatever the fuck other trendy thing you want, but the fact of the matter is, this is a free country where you can say what you want to say, and the reason why, is because people were willing to fight and die for it. (Man, one of the best things about having a steady girlfriend is that I no longer need to fake a bunch of bullshit anti-American jive to score a piece of liberal-arts-major pussy.) ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/31 "2008-08-07T15:12:29Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] but the fact of the matter is, this is a free country where you can say what you want to say, and the reason why, is because people were willing to fight and die for it. [/QUOTE] Hmmm
 mostly. Shortly after the 11 September attacks, saying that this is a direct result of America’s foreign policy was enough to get one fired. How free is that? I certainly feel, if not “freer”, at least more secure living under an Arab dictatorship than in the US
 I don’t like being interrogated every time I come home. Back on topic, I used to live in Tbilisi. National Anthem of the Republic of Georgia - no blood, guts, or cannons here: My icon is my motherland, And the whole world is its icon-stand. Bright mounts and valleys Are shared with God Today our freedom Sings to the glory of future, The dawn star rises up And shines out between two seas. Praise be to liberty, Praise be to liberty! ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/32 "2008-08-07T15:18:28Z")
[QUOTE=Desert Nomad] Hmmm
 mostly. Shortly after the 11 September attacks, saying that this is a direct result of America’s foreign policy was enough to get one fired. How free is that? [/QUOTE] Fired is one thing. It’s up to the discretion of an employer to fire somebody. Get back to me when America starts imprisoning or killing its own citizens for speaking out against the government. [QUOTE=Desert Nomad] I certainly feel, if not “freer”, at least more secure living under an Arab dictatorship than in the US [/QUOTE] Those who would give up liberty for security
deserve
well, to live in an Arab dictatorship, I guess. Try parading around the local town square wearing a signboard saying “[local dictator] IS A WAR CRIMINAL!” and let me know what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/33 "2008-08-07T15:20:53Z")
[QUOTE=mutantmoose] Out and out violent. And unlike the other two _actually names a specific foe_ - the “saxon” - as if that is to be the foe for all time to come. It would be like the UK anthem naming “the hun” because there have been a couple of wars with them in the past. [/QUOTE] Well, there’s that one verse of God Save the King/Queen: > [@](#): > > Lord, grant that Marshal Wade, > May by thy mighty aid, > Victory bring. > May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush, > Rebellious Scots to crush, > God save the King. [QUOTE=gigi] “Battle Hymn”–jeezum what an oxymoron. [/quote] How is a battle hymn an oxymoron? ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/34 "2008-08-07T16:27:44Z")
[QUOTE=mutantmoose] I’ve no problem with revolutionary music or rebel songs \* before or during the actual revolution\* but once you’ve had the revolution, shouldn’t you be thinking about moving on? [/QUOTE] This from _The Times_ on 16 January 2008: _As revolutions go, the one conducted by Captain Valentine Strasser in Sierra Leone in 1992 was pretty damn funky. After he seized control from the 23-year dictatorship of the All People Congress led by Major General Joseph Momoh, Strasser intended to make the disco classic Ain’t No Stopping Us Now by McFadden and Whitehead the new national anthem._ Strasser’s regime lasted just shy of 4 years, which is plenty of time to implement the most radical of national anthem policies IMO, and I’m curious to know whether _Ain’t No Stoppin’ Us Now_ ever made anthem status in Sierra Leone for however brief a period. No less an authority than the Super Furry Animals seems to think it did, but confirmation either way is proving elusive. For guidance, the current SL national anthem begins: _High we exalt thee, realm of the free; Great is the love we have for thee; Firmly united ever we stand, Singing thy praise, O native land._ which is definitely not the opening lyric to Ain’t No Stoppin’ Us Now. In fact, as far as I know, the song isn’t even by McFadden & Whitehead at all. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/35 "2008-08-07T16:37:59Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] At Mass the other week there was the regrettable pairing of “Make Me A Channel of Your Peace” at offertory followed up by the Battle Hymn of the Republic at recessional. And we were asked to pray for American soldiers in Iraq. I was so befuddled I had to walk out during Battle Hymn of the Republic. “Battle Hymn”–jeezum what an oxymoron. [/QUOTE] You must love some of the Psalms. And the Battle Hymn is about fighting to end slavery. Nothing oxymoronic there at all. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/36 "2008-08-07T16:39:13Z")
In fairness the Irish National Anthem is always sung in Irish so > [@](#): > > Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale! > The long-watched day is breaking > The serried ranks of Inisfail > Shall set the tyrant quaking > Our camp fires now are burning low > See in the east a silv’ry glow > Out yonder waits the Saxon foe > So chant a soldier’s song becomes > [@](#): > > A bhuĂ­on nĂĄch fann d’fhuil Ghaeil is Gall, > Sin breacadh lae na saoirse, > Ta scĂ©imhle 's scanradh i gcroĂ­the namhad, > Roimh ranna laochra ĂĄr dtire. > Ár dtinte is trĂ©ith gan sprĂ©ach anois, > Sin luisne ghlĂ© san spĂ©ir anoir, > 'S an bĂ­obha i raon na bpilĂ©ar agaibh: > Seo libh, canaĂ­dh AmhrĂĄn na bhFiann. That’s not going to upset many Sasanachs now is it 😃 The modern athem which is also sang in Irish has these as the main lyrics > [@](#): > > Soldiers are we > Whose lives are pledged to Ireland > Some have come > From a land beyond the wave > Sworn to be free > No more our ancient sire land > Shall shelter the despot or the slave > Tonight we man the bearna baol > In Erin’s cause, come woe or weal (well) > ’Mid cannon’s roar and rifles’ peal > We’ll chant a soldier’s song Or as we say over here > [@](#): > > inne Fianna FĂĄil[5] > AtĂĄ fĂ© gheall ag Éirinn > BuĂ­on dĂĄr slua > Thar toinn do rĂĄinig chugainn > FĂ© mhĂłid bheith saor > SeantĂ­r ĂĄr sinsear feasta > NĂ­ fhĂĄgfar fĂ©n tĂ­orĂĄn nĂĄ fĂ©n trĂĄill > Anocht a thĂ©am sa bhearna bhaoil > Le gean ar Ghaeil, chun bĂĄis nĂł saoil[6] > Le gunnascrĂ©ach, fĂ© lĂĄmhach na bpilĂ©ar > Seo libh canaĂ­dh AmhrĂĄn na bhFiann ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/37 "2008-08-07T16:39:33Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Seconded what **kunilou** and **Apollyon** said. And you think _The Star-Spangled Banner_ is bad? Consider _Maryland, My Maryland_, the state song, which is about a riot by Confederate sympathizers against Federal troops in 1861: “The despot’s heel is on thy shore, Maryland! His torch is at thy temple door, Maryland! Avenge the patriotic gore That flecked the streets of Baltimore, And be the battle queen of yore, Maryland! My Maryland!..” Ugh. Fortunately, I don’t think it’s sung all that often. [/QUOTE] Even better, I think “the tyrant” is supposed to be Abraham Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/38 "2008-08-07T16:52:38Z")
[QUOTE=mutantmoose] And the notion that combat is _gallant_ instead of an evil to be avoided at all costs. [/QUOTE] Because your thesis fails at this point. Combat is not an evil to be avoided at all costs. Sometimes it is necessary to fight. And when combat is necessary, one should be gallant and honourable. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/39 "2008-08-07T16:57:52Z")
While I’m no fan about the US national anthem, one thing that’s unique about it is that it describes a battle that the nation _lost_. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096/40 "2008-08-07T17:12:14Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] At Mass the other week there was the regrettable pairing of “Make Me A Channel of Your Peace” at offertory followed up by the Battle Hymn of the Republic at recessional. And we were asked to pray for American soldiers in Iraq. I was so befuddled I had to walk out during Battle Hymn of the Republic. “Battle Hymn”–jeezum what an oxymoron. [/QUOTE] Yup. That’s the sort of thing that just scrambles my brain. Combining religion and the military, is just asking for trouble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-anthems-too-militaristic-esp-usa-uk-irish/459096.md?page=3)