# National colours. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427 "2003-10-30T12:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/21 "2003-11-02T20:09:45Z")
Well, the national colors for auto racing were pretty much abandoned in the late 60’s, so the Minardis and Lamborghinis don’t really enter into it. There’s still an occasional homage, the link cites Jaguar and Jordan, and I already mentioned Mercedes. It seems popular for a new team to start with the national color as a default, but then they take on a new paint scheme once they’ve had enough success to attract a paying sponsor. As near as I can tell, the only people who still follow the old rules are Ferrari and me. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/22 "2003-11-02T20:49:25Z")
Meaning you have a blue and white car? 🙂 I realise what you’re saying, I just took your _“Italian cars were red. And they still are, check out a Formula 1 Ferrari”_ to mean that that applied to all Italian cars, whereas you meant it to apply to all _Ferraris_. And even though I could give you examples of yellow, black, and blue F1 Ferraris, I’d certainly be stretching my argument a tad. Ferraris are, indeed, red. Now, I certainly don’t follow the rules. My car ought to be orange, but it’s silver. You’d therefore think the car is German, but it’s French. Man, I’m having an identity crisis here! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/23 "2003-11-02T22:59:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > Meaning you have a blue and white car? No, although if I had the money for that new Ford GT I’d be very, very tempted. I have two cars, both the correct color for the country they’re from; one BRG, one silver. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/24 "2003-11-03T03:16:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BigNik \*\*\*And, Mahaloth, in my experience every country with “yellow” as one of their colours uses the term “gold” - as a pseudoarmitage thing. Same colour, but everyone calls it “gold”. \*\* I think that statement is kinda correct, but back-to-front. 🙂 The heraldic tinctures of Gold and Silver (Or and Argent if you prefer) are most commonly represented by yellow and white respectively – whether in paint or dye, on shield or banner. So, Australia’s green and gold are the official colours, then represented by green and yellow. The UK’s red, white and blue, derived from the flags of St. George, St. Andrew and St. Patrick, is technically red, silver and white – the arms of St. George being _argent, a cross gules_. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/25 "2003-11-03T09:17:39Z")
Well, the silver/white thing confused even the Germans, so let’s not hold it against the Limeys. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/26 "2003-11-03T12:48:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BigNik \* > And, **Mahaloth** , in my experience every country with “yellow” as one of their colours uses the term “gold” - as a pseudoarmitage thing. Same colour, but everyone calls it “gold”. Nope. The Swedish colours are “yellow and blue”, not “gold and blue”. BTW It would be interesting with a, say football, tournament between Sweden, Brazil, Colombia, Romania, Ukraine and Scotland (in their reserve colours). ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/27 "2003-11-03T13:14:27Z")
May I suggest [RKC Waalwijk](http://www.rkcwaalwijk.nl/historie/fotos/0102/rkc2-dor2/images/BDscf3488_jpg.jpg) as the organising club for such a tournament? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/28 "2003-11-03T13:36:22Z")
Or if they’re too busy, [Mansfield Town FC](http://stagsonline.tripod.com/team/team_photo.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/29 "2003-11-03T13:38:32Z")
It is interesting what colours come up when a country has to go from there usual strip to their alternative. Japan went from red to blue in their last game. This has been an interesting thread. New Zealand does seem to be the only country with an all black strip (or alternatively all white…our soccer team) and there really doesn’t seem to be any logical reason. I for one would vote to change our flag to black with the silver fern though. Our current flag is to easily confused with those chaps across the Tasman…Well judging by the jackets the national anthem singers are wearing anyway! Apparently they “ran out of red stars”. Is changing a national flag a bad thing? I would much rather change our flag then change our black. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/30 "2003-11-03T14:13:28Z")
Well, South Africa changed their flag (albeit for other reasons), and I think their new one is beautiful. I seem to recall reading of plans to change the Australian flag, too. Or was that depending on the outcome of that separation referendum a few years back? If you’d ask me, both OZ and Kiwi need new flags. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/31 "2003-11-03T14:30:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > It is interesting what colours come up when a country has to go from there usual strip to their alternative. Japan went from red to blue in their last game. The red/white Japanese kit is obviously another flag combination. The blue choice for their soccer kit had this explanation at the last footie WC: _In terms of design, the deep blue in the shirts is said to represent the ocean and the sky, and a narrow red stripe that runs from the neck to the sleeves is done in a likeness of Mount Fuji._ [Cite](http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/archives/wc2002/ne/juns.html). In general, the choice of “change” colour would avoid too close a resemblance to a rival team’s colours. I recall the howls of dismay on one occasion when the Everton goalkeeper wore a red shirt. > [@](#): > > I for one would vote to change our flag to black with the silver fern though. Our current flag is to easily confused with those chaps across the Tasman…Well judging by the jackets the national anthem singers are wearing anyway! Apparently they “ran out of red stars”. > > Is changing a national flag a bad thing? I would much rather change our flag then change our black. “Ran out of red stars” eh? Hmm. The Canadians seem to be happy with the flag they adopted in 1964; ditto South Africa. In fact, having been to a few cricket matches since they changed theirs I noticed hostility towards anyone who was still carrying their old apartheid-era flag. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > If you’d ask me, both OZ and Kiwi need new flags. No, no. The colonials must always be reminded that they were once our lapdogs, and will be again! Haaa-haa-huaaaegh. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/32 "2003-11-03T15:16:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Well, South Africa changed their flag (albeit for other reasons), and I think their new one is beautiful. > > I seem to recall reading of plans to change the Australian flag, too. Or was that depending on the outcome of that separation referendum a few years back? > > If you’d ask me, both OZ and Kiwi need new flags. \*\* Hey only we are allowed to say that 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/33 "2003-11-03T22:35:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > \*\*Hey only we are allowed to say that 😃 \*\* Maybe, but he’s right. 🙂 Only problem is, when new designs get suggested they tend to either be horrible compromises of some sort (a bit from here, and a bit from there) or tribal (or more likey _faux_ tribal) designs that can’t be blazoned (well, red and white with a sqiggly line…). Call me a curmudgeonly heraldry purist, but I want a clean elegant design that can be blazoned. (OK, so black with a silver fern leaf would meet these criteria…) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/34 "2003-11-04T02:56:27Z")
There was a website a while back with proposals for a new Australian flag. Anything come of that? And as for a new NZ flag, one proposal I saw was like a green-and-white Canadian flag, but with a fern leaf in the middle. The black-and-silver sounds pretty good too though. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/35 "2003-11-04T03:07:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > **Our current flag is to easily confused with those chaps across the Tasman…Well judging by the jackets the national anthem singers are wearing anyway! Apparently they “ran out of red stars”.** Actually, it was just because they thought that in order to win the cup, the kiwis needed an extra eight points in every game. [Cue crickets chirping] It’s funny because the red stars on the NZ flag have five points and the World Cup anthem singers’ jackets’ stars have seven points on them like the Australian flag because the Irish IRB didn’t realise the flags were all that different and NZ have a tendency to choke and fall just short in World Cup finals matches and… Oh, I give up. I’m going back to work. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/36 "2003-11-04T11:18:11Z")
[A promotional site about new OZ flag designs.](http://www.ausflag.com.au/home.html) [Same thing, but then Kiwi.](http://www.hbtv.co.nz/flagnz/) (I actually really like that Kiwi one!) ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427/37 "2003-11-05T00:09:57Z")
The FlagNZ Kiwi flag proposal is quite a nice graphic… although not IMHO terribly nice heraldy. Something along those line though would be tolerable – my most major complaint would be the introduction of gold stars. Our current stars are red, bordered in white (well, except to the IRB perhaps), and gold is not a colour we currently use or have a connection with. (The designer’s comment that gold represent the “wealth” of NZ cultures is just baloney). Also, when a flag was originally being designed for NZ, back in the mid-1800’s, the one thing the Maori chiefs who were being asked for ideas/comments could agree on was that it had to have red in it. What’s the currently used colour missing from the FlagNZ proposal? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-colours/210427.md?page=1)