# National Day of Pointing Out Biblical Contradictions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232 "2001-05-03T16:52:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2001, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/61 "2001-05-07T22:12:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eutychus55 \* > \*\*Oh, yeah … this is _definitely_ going to be fun. \*\* This is why we’re here, to entertain the moderators. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/62 "2001-05-07T22:42:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Twin \* > \*\*Just wanted to add that most of the “contradictions” listed in this thread (as well as many others) are explained at this URL: > > [http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~werdna/contradictions/cindex.html](http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~werdna/contradictions/cindex.html) > > \*\* I got a “Not Found.” Is it because I lack faith? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/63 "2001-05-07T22:59:23Z")
Well, since the link works for me, we must assume that either (a) you lack faith or (b) you are a maroon. So let’s go with “Yes; it’s because you lack faith.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/64 "2001-05-08T01:37:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, **MEBuckner** (can I call you “Bucky?”) Well, andy, I don’t guess there’s anything I could do to stop you. > [@](#): > > don’t get me wrong. I’m disgusted by the National Day of Our God Kicks Your God’s Ass too. > > I just don’t think (to borrow a sig) one can reason someone out of a position he did not achieve through reason. It annoys the pig. Well, okay. But how about mock and ridicule the pig? I mean, purely for my own enjoyment? > [@](#): > > Bickering for days on end about whether we should take bribes or not doesn’t make everything in the Bible a lie. I believe several of the things it says in the Bible are true. > [@](#): > > I got a “Not Found.” Is it because I lack faith? > [@](#): > > Well, since the link works for me, we must assume that either (a) you lack faith or (b) you are a maroon. So let’s go with “Yes; it’s because you lack faith.”😉 Apparently this page comes and goes. I wasn’t getting through to it, and now all of a sudden I am. I guess somewhere a bunch of Christians are clapping their hands and saying “I believe in the ‘Index to Biblical Contradictions’ page; I do, I do!” When their arms get tired, we all get the “404 - File Not Found” error. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/65 "2001-05-08T01:38:59Z")
**From Twin’s Link** > [@](#): > > (after a list of bible verses concerning women) The Lord does not discriminate against us sisters; rather, He is full of compassion for us in our weakness. [Scarlett O’Hara]Oh yes, I am weak and helpless and a _man_ to tell me what do, or I’m just _lost_![/Scarlett O’Hara] :rolleyes: Oh, and **Mr. Der Kommisar**? Are you going to just completely disregard my last post or what? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/66 "2001-05-08T03:45:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, andy, I don’t guess there’s anything I could do to stop you. So that’s a no, then. Apologies. I used to know a Buckner who went by Bucky, so every time I see your name, that’s what comes to mind. No offense meant. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/67 "2001-05-08T04:15:09Z")
No problem, andros. So where the hell’s Der Kommissar? I wasn’t finished kicking him around. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/68 "2001-05-08T04:42:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Der Kommissar \* > \*\*Again, I suggest that you look at the BIBLE with an HONEST heart and an OPEN mind. Your own soul hangs in the balance. \*\* To be HONEST and OPEN with you, I have to say that the idea that my “own soul hangs in the balance” of such shoddily written and edited literature (indeed, may I say “shitty” literature) as the BIBLE offends me quite deeply. The idea that god, if he or she exists, would choose to communicate with me through the equivalent of a 1st century $3 newstand paperback hack, and then offer me such dire consequences for admitting to myself that it’s shit, is, to me, basically spitting on god and telling him that somehow the most powerful being in the universe, if he exists, can’t write a book to save his life. And that idea is quite disturbing to me. Don’t you think god would be a better author than Danielle Steele? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/69 "2001-05-08T04:51:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Der Kommissar \* > As far as Congress goes (I assume we’re talking U.S. here) there’s a “constitutional” problem: > > “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment > of religion . . . .” > > The challenge is to make the U.S. into the Christian country it was intended to be without offending this Amendment. Perhaps a Constitutional Amendment is necessary. > > Certainly, it seems that an Amendment is necessary to make clear that murder of unborn children is not protected by the Constitution. Two things, DK: 1. The United States, by no valid stretch of the imgainations, was established as a “christian” nation. That’s why the Amendment’s there, so the fanatics don’t force their religion on others. 2. The Bible itself doesn’t even consider abortion to be murder. It’s dishonest, i.e, BEARING FALSE WITNESS, to say that it does. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/70 "2001-05-08T14:16:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > > > [@](#): > > > > don’t get me wrong. I’m disgusted by the National Day of Our God Kicks Your God’s Ass too. > > > > I just don’t think (to borrow a sig) one can reason someone out of a position he did not achieve through reason. It annoys the pig. > > Well, okay. But how about mock and ridicule the pig? I mean, purely for my own enjoyment? > > > [@](#): > > > > Bickering for days on end about whether we should take bribes or not doesn’t make everything in the Bible a lie. > > I believe several of the things it says in the Bible are true. Seriously, I’m not trying to be a smart ass Buckner, but help me out…if you’re acknowledging that several things in the Bible are true…who are we mocking and ridiculing, since I guess it’s not people who read the Bible and learn from it. Is it people who are openly religious? People who think the Bible is infallible? I’m totally lost. This is why I don’t jump into these debates. Help me to the door…I…I don’t have the strength. jarbaby ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/71 "2001-05-08T15:01:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > 2. The Bible itself doesn’t even consider abortion to be murder. It’s dishonest, i.e, BEARING FALSE WITNESS, to say that it does. \*\* That’s not really the case. The verses quoted are clearly talking about an accident. That doesn’t mean one should be permitted to wantonly destroy a fetus. I don’t think you can extrapolate from this case to a case of premeditated abortion. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/72 "2001-05-08T15:02:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Der Kommissar \* > \*\*Do you honestly believe that the framers of the Constitution intended that document to protect the “right” to murder unborn children? > \*\* Boy, talk about circular logic. The framers meant for America to be a Christian country. How do we know this? Well, do you really think they meant abortion to be legal? Obviously not, because they wanted America to be a Christian country! Never mind that the framers lived in a time when abortion was much more widely accepted. Never mind that the Bible nowhere says that abortion is murder, and in fact clearly states the opposite. Never mind, for that matter, all the unborn children which the Israelites murdered at the command of the Semitic Rape Demon (or, for that matter, all the adults slaughtered by the SRD’s armies, or all the young women they raped.) This reminds me of some thoughts I had recently on why people hold the opinions they do. A year or two ago, most people thought that the idea that the moon landing was a hoax was utterly stupid- only a paranoid fool could believe it. Now that FOX has run a special on it, plenty of people find it to be reasonable. Or take Holocaust Deniers- one fellow who made a documentary on Holocaust Deniers found, to his horror, that when he showed the rough cut to his class of Harvard undergraduates many of them flip-flopped from “Holocaust Deniers are evil” to “Holocaust Deniers are right” after seeing the Deniers present their idiotic arguments. People’s opinions seem to be entirely shallow, rooted in what they are told they _should_ believe instead of in the actual evidence. All these fundie pro-lifers are utterly convinced that the Bible says that abortion is murder, but they only believe it because that’s what they were told to believe, just like a few years ago they were told to believe that you have to be an idiot to think that the moon landings were a hoax. Who knows? Maybe in a year or two someone will flip the switch, and we’ll be overrun with fundies who think that abortion carries no moral weight whatsoever, because the Bible says so. After all, we’ve got a generation growing up which is more sexually active, quite ignorant of contraception, and expected to go to college. When the fundies find so many of their daughters turning up pregnant in their teens, are they going to ship them off to live with an aunt for nine months, or are they going to flip their shallow (but vehement) opinions as soon as someone gives them a more convenient (and, in this case, more accurate) spin on the Bible? -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/73 "2001-05-08T15:55:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > **That’s not really the case. The verses quoted are clearly talking about an accident. That doesn’t mean one should be permitted to wantonly destroy a fetus. I don’t think you can extrapolate from this case to a case of premeditated abortion.** The passage also states that if the man accidentally hurts or kills the pregnant woman, he is to be injured or killed in like kind. The fact that the injury caused to the mother was caused by accident does not mitigate. As a result, I’d have to say that the “accident” part is immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2001, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/74 "2001-05-08T21:51:16Z")
**jarbaby:** Well, I’m mocking Der Kommissar, who seemed to be arguing that the Framers of the Constitution intended for this to be a “Christian nation”, and in order to carry out that mandate we therefore need to amend the Constitution to remove the parts where the Framers of the Constitution indicated that they didn’t want this to be a “Christian nation”. And, originally, I intended to mock and ridicule people who pester Congress into declaring a “National Day of (Christian [and, in my city at least, Exclusively Protestant]) Prayer”, and who insist on celebrating this event on the grounds of _my_ state capitol. (And the Congressmen and other politicians who are spineless, demagogic, or bigoted enough to be pestered into it.) If the National Council of Churches had started a tradition of calling for a “National Day of Prayer” each year, and various Christian churches had all agreed to celebrate it in a spirit of Christian ecumenicism, and Christians all gathered on such-and-such Thursday in May or whenever in their homes and churches and other privately-owned propety (or even rented a publicly-owned civic center or two, after filling out the usual paperwork and paying the usual fees) to pray together, then I certainly wouldn’t have started a smart-ass Pit thread. Hey, Christians gather to pray in their churches every Sunday (not to mention Wednesday night prayer meeting and the Seventh-Day Adventists on Saturday), but I don’t run out and open up a new Christian-bashing thread every week. From [this page](http://www.praygeorgia.com/page2.html), we had this schedule of events at the state capitol building (i.e, at _my_ state capitol building): > [@](#): > > Governor’s Proclamation - > Rev. Jackey Beavers - Glory Harvester > > Pastor Alonzo Terry - Solid Rock Pentecostal Church > > Solid Rock Pentecostal Choir > > Rev. Dr. Gerald Durley - Providence Missionary Baptist Church > > Pastor Jim Thalaker - Lord of Life Lutheran > > Moses Ector - Dep. Assistant Dir. GBI > > Chris Holcomb - 11 Alive Meteorologist > > Dr. Anne Wimberly - Professor -ITC at Atlanta University Center > > Pastor Woodrow Walker - Abundant Life So, let’s see here: I haven’t investigated this in a whole lot of depth, but it appears, just from perusing this list, that what we had here–at the state capitol, assembled by the grace of the United States Congress and the Governor of the State of Georgia–was a Protestant; another Protestant; a bunch more Protestants; another Protestant; yet one more Protestant; okay, I thought this next one might have been the Token Jew–hey, his name’s Moses, right?–but a web search indicates that this guy is some kind of officer in the local chapter of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, so, while I suppose it’s not impossible that he is in fact a Black Jewish Lay Rabbi who also happens to be Assistant Director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, I’m betting “Protestant”; a meteorologist–I guess he might be there to do a Neo-Pagan Rain Dance Ceremony, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it, and in fact I would be willing to bet folding money that he’s a _Protestant_ meteorlogist; a professor from an inter-denominational seminary–by “inter-denominational” we mean, of course, “inter-Protestant-denominational”; and, to round out the afternoon, a Protestant. Jesus H. Christ on a sidecar, they didn’t even bother to get a Token Priest up there. Mind you, I’m not really all that keen on “Protestant-Catholic-Jewish ecumenicism” when it’s done in conjunction with the state (since I am not Protestant or Catholic or Jewish, and yet I am an American citizen), but it just shows how narrow-minded this whole thing really was. If the Protestants want to have a big Protestant love-in, don’t they have some kind of Protestant Community Center or something? It’s not like you can throw a brick in Atlanta without hitting a church (not that I would do such a thing, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Bean\_Counter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@Bean\_Counter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bean_Counter)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/75 "2001-05-09T15:51:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Der Kommissar \* > \*\*The challenge is to make the U.S. into the Christian country it was intended to be without offending this Amendment. \*\* This pretty much proves your knowledge of Constitutional history is as good as your knowledge of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/76 "2001-05-09T18:12:52Z")
It also says how feeble his logic skills are. There is no way to make the USA a Christian country without violating the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/77 "2001-05-09T19:31:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > > 2. The Bible itself doesn’t even consider abortion to be murder. It’s dishonest, i.e, BEARING FALSE WITNESS, to say that it does. > > That’s not really the case. The verses quoted are clearly talking about an accident. That doesn’t mean one should be permitted to wantonly destroy a fetus. I don’t think you can extrapolate from this case to a case of premeditated abortion. Actually, it really is the case, Zev. The verses quoted are clearly talking about an intentional act: assault. There is absolutely no honest way for you to consider the assault on the woman to be murder or attempted murder. The Bible’s punishment for an unauthorized taking of a life is forfeiture of one’s own life. Since the Bible itself does not require exacting the forfeiture of life for the forced loss of the woman’s fetus, then the Bible does not consider that to be the taking of a life. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/78 "2001-05-09T20:28:05Z")
Der Kommissar, - when you say America was intended to be a Christian country, did you mean Protestant or Catholic? - given that the War of Independence was fought against the country which had then (and still has) the Protestant Christianity as its **State religion** , weren’t the Founding Fathers rather ‘careless’ :rolleyes: not to simply carry that religion into their Constitution? - Leviticus 20 verse 10: ‘And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that commit adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.’ Don’t you find it hard to read that passage ‘with an open mind and an honest heart’, and not want to lobby Congress for an additional death penalty offence? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/79 "2001-05-09T22:46:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* > Actually, it really is the case, Zev. The verses quoted are clearly talking about an intentional act: assault. There is absolutely no honest way for you to consider the assault on the woman to be murder or attempted murder. \*\* I agree with you 100% on this. The Bible’s punishment for an unauthorized taking of a life is forfeiture of one’s own life. [/quote] \*\* Here’s where you’re wrong. The punishment for murder is death. However, there are other “unauthorized” takings of life that don’t result in the death penalty. One that I can think of (and that more closely matches the case at hand than murder) is the case of an accidental, negligent death. Such a person had to go to exile until the death of the High Priest, not be put to death. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Since the Bible itself does not require exacting the forfeiture of life for the forced loss of the woman’s fetus, then the Bible does not consider that to be the taking of a life. \*\* See above. Again, however, just because abortion isn’t classified as a “murder” doesn’t, however, make it permitted. Jewish law (and yes, that’s the position I’m speaking from) mandates that in most cases, abortion is forbidden. However, if done in violation of _halachah_, the death penalty does not, of course, apply. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232/80 "2001-05-11T14:20:15Z")
Well, it looks like Der Kommissar has been raptured along with JerseyDiamond. (DK, or, as I prefer to think of him, DKSD, registered on 5-5 and last posted to this thread on 5-6.) And what is it with “Der Kommissar”? “Der” is German, and “Kommissar” is Russian. It’s bad enough these fundies think the Nazis and the Stalinists were both atheist groups- now they think they were both German too! -Ben [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-pointing-out-biblical-contradictions/64232.md?page=5)