# National Day of PRAYER and Rememberance **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683 "2005-09-08T18:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/1 "2005-09-08T18:31:07Z")
Well, the Reverend-in-Chief has done it again. Friday, September 16, as of 2 minutes ago (which is why there is no link) has been declared a National Day of **Prayer** and Rememberance. Yet another knife into the back of the separation of church and state. I do not jerk my knee at every boneheaded move the CinC makes (and that’s regardless to which party the CinC belongs), but his insistence on _constantly_ marrying religion and government is, IMNSHO, destroying the Constitution more than any “activist” judicial decision. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/2 "2005-09-08T18:39:56Z")
I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. It’s not like prayer is mandatory, nor is it like Bush has done anything that every other president didn’t do before him. Not that I like President Cuckoobanananuts, but I think this is a non-issue. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/3 "2005-09-08T18:40:40Z")
Did he tell you to which god you have to pray? If not, then this does not violate separation of church and state. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/4 "2005-09-08T18:40:52Z")
You could pray to Satan, maybe? Yeah, I don’t believe in him either, but how better to annoy the Religious Right types??? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/5 "2005-09-08T18:42:01Z")
Presidents have been declaring National Days of Prayer and Rememberance since George Washington, and George Washington headed the committee that wrote the Constitution in the first place. Trust me, this won’t destroy the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/6 "2005-09-08T18:47:11Z")
Time to bring in an _Upchuck_ smiley. Of course, this should be no surprise. the guy’s dad thinks that non-religious folks have no business in this god-fearing country. :rolleyes: > [@G.B. Senior](#): > > No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should > they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/7 "2005-09-08T18:47:58Z")
Guess I haven’t been paying too much attention to past instances of National Days of Prayers and Rememberance. Why can’t we just call it a National Day of Rememberance. Is the ‘prayer’ bit necessary? Maybe I’m just a little trigger-happy; Bush is the biggest bible-thumper in the Oval Office in my memory of Presidents. It’s one thing to have your system of faith and beliefs. It’s another to wear it on your sleeve, especially when you are the Chief Executive of a secular nation. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/8 "2005-09-08T18:55:53Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Maybe I’m just a little trigger-happy; Bush is the biggest bible-thumper in the Oval Office in my memory of Presidents. But every president has been pretty conspicuously Christian. Remember Clinton’s New Covenant? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/9 "2005-09-08T18:57:47Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Trust me, this won’t destroy the Constitution. Yeah, that’s what Hitler said to the Bundestadt in 1933. …What? It’s not a pitting until somebody brings up the “N” word. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/10 "2005-09-08T18:58:34Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Did he tell you to which god you have to pray? If not, then this does not violate separation of church and state. Umm I think that’s wrong. Everson v. Board of Education (1947) The “establishment of religion” clause of the First Amendment means at least this: (1) Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. (2) Neither can pass laws which aid one religion aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. (3) Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. (4) No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. (5) No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. (6) Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. Merely by saying prayer you at least violate #3 in that by prayer you force them to profess a belief in a religion. [Cite where this summary comes from](http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/eclause1.htm) Needless to say most of that list is shot to hell by everyday activities of both the Church and the State but a guy can dream can’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/11 "2005-09-08T19:08:51Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > (3) Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. > > Merely by saying prayer you at least violate #3 in that by prayer you force them to profess a belief in a religion. So, if he had said “Prayer _or_ Remembrance,” that’d be okay? > [@](#): > > Why can’t we just call it a National Day of Rememberance. Is the ‘prayer’ bit necessary? That discriminates against people who want to pray. Or Alzheimer’s patients. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/12 "2005-09-08T19:11:46Z")
This was the _right_ thing for Bush to do. He did it for 9/11. It would look very odd for him not to do so for Katrina. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/13 "2005-09-08T19:13:49Z")
I am with **D\_Odds** and **Scott Plaid** , although I guess I’m used to it. I’ve already known Bush Senior doesn’t think we atheists citizens or patriots. Funny, I don’t remember any god-bothering in the citizenship oath I took when I came to this country. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/14 "2005-09-08T19:14:26Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, if he had said “Prayer _or_ Remembrance,” that’d be okay? I know I’d be highly amused if he put it that way. Frankly I’m not too worked up about it. It’s not a big secret Presidents throw religion around to win votes (or truly believe if you’re not a cynic) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/15 "2005-09-08T19:17:12Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Time to bring in an _Upchuck_ smiley. > > Of course, this should be no surprise. the guy’s dad thinks that non-religious folks have no business in this god-fearing country. :rolleyes: Has anyone ever found a primary source for this quote? ---
**Author:** ![Notorious\_Nik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/858c86/32.png) [@Notorious\_Nik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notorious_Nik)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/16 "2005-09-08T19:18:29Z")
**Darkhold** , perhaps you can elaborate for me. I’m failing to see how just saying the word prayer is in violation of #3 in your example. The president calling for prayer isn’t forcing non-religious people into churches or forcing them to believe in religion. No one is being forced to pray. Personaly, it doesn’t matter to me what the exact wording is. I usually ignore the president when he calls for days of prayer anyway. I’m not the praying type. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/17 "2005-09-08T19:24:38Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I do not jerk my knee at every boneheaded move the CinC makes (and that’s regardless to which party the CinC belongs), but his insistence on _constantly_ marrying religion and government is, IMNSHO, destroying the Constitution more than any “activist” judicial decision. To which president are you referring? > [@](#): > > ## NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER, 2000 > > BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA > > A PROCLAMATION > > Throughout our Nation’s history, Americans have come before God with humble hearts to ask forgiveness, to seek wisdom, and to offer thanksgiving and praise. The framers of our democracy, on a quest for freedom and equality, were fueled by an abiding faith in a just and loving God, to whom they turned often for guidance and strength. > > Succeeding generations of Americans, striving to preserve that freedom in the face of challenges posed by enemies abroad or conflict at home, also turned their hearts and minds to God in prayer. Today, whether celebrating the special moments in our lives, searching for strength and meaning in the face of problems or grief, or simply giving thanks for the blessing of a new day, Americans continue to use the powerful medium of prayer. > > Now more than ever, Americans treasure our religious freedom, which embraces the many diverse communities of faith that have infused our society and our cultural heritage through more than two centuries. Millions of Americans gratefully sustain the tradition of prayer in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and other houses of worship across our country. > > And we continue to rely on our faith as a pillar of strength, even in this era of unprecedented peace and prosperity. We pray for the spirit of reconciliation, so that we may overcome the divisions of race, religion, culture, and background that have scarred our society in recent years. We pray for the spirit of compassion so that we will reach out to others who have not shared equally in this world’s bounteous blessings – those here at home who struggle for economic and educational opportunity and those around the globe whose lives have been darkened by the shadows of poverty, oppression, natural disaster, or disease. And we must always pray for wisdom – the wisdom to raise children with strong values and loving hearts; the wisdom to live in harmony with our environment and to preserve its health and beauty for the benefit of future generations; and the wisdom to keep America the world’s greatest hope for freedom, peace, and human dignity in the 21st century. > > The Congress, by Public Law 100-307, has called on our citizens to reaffirm the role of prayer in our society and to honor the religious diversity our freedom permits by recognizing annually a “National Day of Prayer.” > > NOW, THEREFORE, I, WILLIAM J. CLINTON, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 4, 2000, as a National Day of Prayer. I encourage the citizens of this great Nation to pray, each in his or her own manner, seeking strength from God to face today’s challenges, seeking guidance for tomorrow’s uncertainties, and giving thanks for the rich blessings that our country has enjoyed throughout its history. > > IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fourth day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-fourth. > > WILLIAM J. CLINTON > [@](#): > > ## NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER, 1999 > > BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA > > A PROCLAMATION > > From our earliest days, whether in times of joy or of challenge, Americans have raised their hearts and voices in prayer. On the Great Plains, American Indians prayed for peace and for blessings upon their children and their friends. The Pilgrims prayed from the moment they first set foot on this continent. Our Nation’s founders prayed as they forged a democracy based on freedom and respect for human rights. Our military leaders and the millions of men and women who have served in our Armed Forces have prayed in the midst of every conflict in which our Nation has fought. And so it continues to this day, as Americans of every race, background, and creed pray in churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, and their own homes for guidance, wisdom, and courage in confronting the challenges before us. > > We can pray openly thanks to the religious freedom guaranteed for us by the First Amendment to the Constitution. That freedom and the diversity of faiths it has fostered are among America’s most important achievements. They have made our Nation a beacon for generations of people from around the world who have traveled here seeking to worship according to their conscience without fear of coercion or constraint. > > On this National Day of Prayer, observed so soon after the tragedy in Littleton, Colorado, and the tornadoes that devastated communities in Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma, we are more keenly aware than ever of the power and solace we find in prayer. Throughout the days that have followed the deaths of and injury to so many of our fellow citizens, Americans have united in prayer for those who died or were harmed, for the comfort and peace of their families, for the wisdom to heal our society, and for the strength to overcome such tragedies. For as Martin Luther King, Jr., so eloquently said, “When our days become dreary with low-hovering clouds of despair, and when our nights become darker than a thousand midnights, let us remember that there is a creative force in this universe . . . a power that is able to make a way out of no way and transform dark yesterdays into bright tomorrows.” > > The Congress, by Public Law 100-307, has called on our citizens to reaffirm the role of prayer in our society and to honor the religious diversity our freedom permits by recognizing annually a “National Day of Prayer.” > > NOW, THEREFORE, I, WILLIAM J. CLINTON, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 6, 1999, as a National Day of Prayer. I encourage the citizens of this great Nation to pray, each in his or her own manner, seeking strength from God to face the problems of today, requesting guidance for the uncertainties of tomorrow, and giving thanks for the rich blessings that our country has enjoyed throughout its history. > > IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fifth day of May, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and ninety-nine, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-third. > > WILLIAM J. CLINTON ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/18 "2005-09-08T19:25:33Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > That discriminates against people who want to pray. _Or Alzheimer’s patients_. . . . I like you 😃 I’m to lazy to look, but howsabout someone look up how many Americans “pray” or partipate in some equally religious activity. I would venture to say this is probably a pretty good chunk. Because we are (probably) dealing with a huge percentage of the population, he would look like a douche for _not_ saying to pray. Not to mention he would be alienating a huge part of his base and all that annoying political crap. Not to mention, I distinctly recall my high school principal getting on the intercom on 9-11 and telling us all to pray. No one complained, not even my atheist friends. Why? Because they understood the spirit of what he was saying, not that he was forcing them to LITERALLY pray. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/19 "2005-09-08T19:26:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Has anyone ever found a primary source for this quote? [Closest I ever got](http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm) sounds fishy to me personally. > [@Notorious Nik](#): > > Darkhold, perhaps you can elaborate for me. I’m failing to see how just saying the word prayer is in violation of #3 in your example. The president calling for prayer isn’t forcing non-religious people into churches or forcing them to believe in religion. No one is being forced to pray. Well it’s the fact that by telling the entire nation it’s a day of prayer he’s forcing them to acknowledge some type of religion and influencing them to believe in said religion. I was mainly quibbling about **Lord Ashtar** ’s stance that government could tell you to pray as long as they didn’t pick a single religion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/20 "2005-09-08T19:35:53Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > [Closest I ever got](http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm) sounds fishy to me personally.Well it’s the fact that by telling the entire nation it’s a day of prayer he’s forcing them to acknowledge some type of religion and influencing them to believe in said religion. I was mainly quibbling about **Lord Ashtar** ’s stance that government could tell you to pray as long as they didn’t pick a single religion. Nope. National Day of Prayer AND Rememberance. You can do both or just one. I think it would be bad form to do the first without the second, but doing the second without the first would be just fine. Doing neither wouldn’t be polite. If you do that, don’t tell anyone. Like farting in the pews, it’s a subject best not spoken of. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683.md?page=2)