# National Day of PRAYER and Rememberance **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683 "2005-09-08T18:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/321 "2005-09-15T13:07:10Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Whether or not it’s inappropriate is a subjective call. True. But they were praying before the hurricane hit and they’ve been praying after, and I still see 90,000 square miles of destruction. This isn’t rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/322 "2005-09-15T13:34:20Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > True. But they were praying before the hurricane hit and they’ve been praying after, and I still see 90,000 square miles of destruction. This isn’t rocket science. I thought we were talking about the President proclaiming a day of Prayer and Remembrance. If you’d rather discuss the effectiveness of prayer, I suggest you go open a GD thread, or better yet do a search. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/323 "2005-09-15T13:49:14Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I thought we were talking about the President proclaiming a day of Prayer and Remembrance. If you’d rather discuss the effectiveness of prayer, I suggest you go open a GD thread, or better yet do a search. This is directly related to the president relying on the suggestion of prayer throughout his presidency and the ineffectiveness (and inappropriateness) of it. I suggest you pay attention to the subject matter at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/324 "2005-09-15T14:42:13Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > This is directly related to the president relying on the suggestion of prayer throughout his presidency and the ineffectiveness (and inappropriateness) of it. I suggest you pay attention to the subject matter at hand. What does the effectiveness of prayer have to do with anything in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/325 "2005-09-15T14:57:39Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > What does the effectiveness of prayer have to do with anything in this thread? HELLLLOOOO! The whole point of it is that the proclamation of a day of prayer by the PRESIDENT is taking up time better spent on SOLVING THE PROBLEMS HE’S ADMITTED HE’S RESPONSIBLE FOR. He should be working. Not praying. He’s not a priest…he’s a president. Try to keep up! If the prayer held any promise for helping the situation, I’d be all for it. But it doesn’t. He’s wasting (read “buying”) time. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/326 "2005-09-15T15:04:43Z")
It took him maybe 20 seconds to proclaim a day of prayer. Do you really believe that one third of a minute was ever going to make or break any situation in New Orleans? So only priests should be praying? I didn’t know that was a requirement. If you’re honestly suggesting that the President shouldn’t pray at all, then I don’t know what else to say to you. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/327 "2005-09-15T15:21:44Z")
I personally believe, _pace_ Kalhoun, that the average American probably _expects_ Big Prez to invoke the Almighty at times like this, and that Presidential advisors, if they needed to be consulted at all, would be equally aware of this and might mumble something like “George, how about a day of ayer-pray and emembrance-ray?”, simply in order to be seen to be behaving in the comforting manner that the electorate expects. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/328 "2005-09-15T15:37:05Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > It took him maybe 20 seconds to proclaim a day of prayer. Do you really believe that one third of a minute was ever going to make or break any situation in New Orleans? > > So only priests should be praying? I didn’t know that was a requirement. If you’re honestly suggesting that the President shouldn’t pray at all, then I don’t know what else to say to you. As much as that would please me personally, no one ever said he _shouldn’t_ ever pray. But not during times when brains and action are the operative words of the day. He can pray in the shower while he’s getting ready for work. He can pray in the limo on the way to the Rotunda. He can pray when he sits down to eat. He can pray at church! But with regard to Hurricane Katrina, I’d like him to lead the country in a fund-raising, fact-finding, shirtsleeve-rolling flurry of meaningful activity…not prayer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_New\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@The\_New\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_New_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/329 "2005-09-15T18:09:35Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Yeah, but if I start complaining about how the principal is wasting my tax dollars in giving this little speech and complaining about how it’s a violation of church and state (which it’s not), then I become a whiner. I disagree. Be honest - you _know_ that millions of people would do EXACTLY that if such an event _did_ occur. While you would label them all “whiners”, I don’t think that I would. That telling school kids what they should or shouldn’t believe is not a violation of the Establisment Clause is your _opinion_. There are good arguments for your opinion, but there are also good arguments _against_ it. Whether it’s _appropriate_ - well it quite clearly is not. Not in a supposedly free society, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/330 "2005-09-15T18:19:07Z")
> [@The New Guy](#): > > While you would label them all “whiners”, I don’t think that I would. You’re right, I would label them all as whiners. > [@](#): > > Whether it’s _appropriate_ - well it quite clearly is not. Not in a supposedly free society, anyway. Why is it inappropriate again? Because a minority is pissed off about it? That would make an awful lot of things inappropriate if we use that criterion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_New\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@The\_New\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_New_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/331 "2005-09-15T19:13:25Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Why is it inappropriate again? Because a minority is pissed off about it? Strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/332 "2005-09-15T19:20:42Z")
Okay, let me rephrase. Please explain your last line in post #329. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/333 "2005-09-15T19:33:40Z")
Ooh! It’s tomorrow! I can hardly wait! Whatever shall I wear?!? \ ---
**Author:** ![The\_New\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@The\_New\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_New_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/334 "2005-09-15T19:59:07Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Okay, let me rephrase. Please explain your last line in post #329. I thought I was pretty clear, but I’ll expound. Remember that I’m talking about public schools. In a private parochial school it would of course be appropriate to instruct the students on what their beliefs should be. Or, were there such thing as a private atheist school, it would be appropriate to tell the students not to believe in God. But a public school is an extenstion of the government, and as such it isn’t appropriate to tell the students what religious beliefs they should or shouldn’t have. The U.S. _was_ founded on the principal of religious freedom. You can argue the particulars, but surely you wouldn’t dispute that general statement, would you? In a theocracy, yes, I imagine it would be considered appropriate to tell students what beliefs they should have. And in an atheist society such as Stalinist Russia, it would be considered appropriate to tell students _not_ to believe in God. But in the U.S., where one ostensibly is free from having the government dictate his beliefs, it is not appropriate. People want the freedom to chose their _own_ beliefs, and to be able to instruct their own children in those beliefs if they so chose. They do NOT want their children being told to believe things, in public school, with which they disagree. Minority/majority has nothing to do with it. It’s about freedom of choice for _everyone_. In fact, your strawman didn’t even _apply_, because in the case we were talking about (an atheist principal telling the students to stop believing in God), it would be the _majority_ that would be “pissed off”. When we’re talking about freedoms, majority/minority has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_New\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@The\_New\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_New_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/335 "2005-09-15T20:00:16Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > \ Not sure if you’re aware, but when you see a thread title you don’t HAVE to click on it. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/336 "2005-09-15T20:32:42Z")
> [@The New Guy](#): > > Not sure if you’re aware, but when you see a thread title you don’t HAVE to click on it. I think she may have been referring to the ineffectualness of the prayer rally. ---
**Author:** ![The\_New\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@The\_New\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_New_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/337 "2005-09-15T20:46:57Z")
Oh, gosh - I’m SO sorry. I think you’re right. I thought it was one of those “I’m gonna post a non-sequitur because your thread is so stupid”, kind of posts. My most profound apologies. :o ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/338 "2005-09-15T20:53:09Z")
> [@The New Guy](#): > > Oh, gosh - I’m SO sorry. I think you’re right. I thought it was one of those “I’m gonna post a non-sequitur because your thread is so stupid”, kind of posts. > > My most profound apologies. :o That’s ok. We all tend to get a little jacked up on certain topics. ---
**Author:** ![The\_New\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@The\_New\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_New_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/339 "2005-09-15T21:32:47Z")
I wasn’t “jacked up”; I just misread it. If it _did_ say what I had thought it said, I would still give the same response. The problem is I just don’t know how to read. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/340 "2005-09-16T19:08:59Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I think she may have been referring to the ineffectualness of the prayer rally. Thank you, **Kalhoun** --that is indeed exactly what I meant. I am in the middle of my day of prayer and rememberance and I think I’ll take a nap. That oughta do as much good (well, for me, anyway).\* Oh, BTW–I am wearing a lavendar sweater, black slacks and bedroom slippers. (note the subtle touch of mourning in the black/lavendar comob). 🆒 \*and before the Righteous come and Pit me–I gave food, clothes, toys, books and shoes to the 120 evacuees that are here locally. I am also slated to give blood next week… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683.md?page=18)