# National Day of PRAYER and Rememberance **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683 "2005-09-08T18:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/21 "2005-09-08T19:41:34Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Nope. National Day of Prayer AND Rememberance. You can do both or just one. I think it would be bad form to do the first without the second, but doing the second without the first would be just fine. > > Doing neither wouldn’t be polite. If you do that, don’t tell anyone. Like farting in the pews, it’s a subject best not spoken of. Nope And: Refers to a logical condition that describes two statements which are both true. A logical operator that required that both of the relational operators it connects must be true for the whole statement to evaluate as true. If either of the relational operators are false, or if both are false, the statement will evaluate as false. in between words means both words must exist. you can’t do just one or the other they both have to be true to make the statement true. You can only pray AND remember you can’t just remember OR pray. ---
**Author:** ![Notorious\_Nik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/858c86/32.png) [@Notorious\_Nik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notorious_Nik)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/22 "2005-09-08T19:42:56Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > [Closest I ever got](http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm) sounds fishy to me personally.Well it’s the fact that by telling the entire nation it’s a day of prayer he’s forcing them to acknowledge some type of religion and influencing them to believe in said religion. I was mainly quibbling about **Lord Ashtar** ’s stance that government could tell you to pray as long as they didn’t pick a single religion. I’m kind of with **Lord Ashtar** on that. This may very well be my failing, but I still can’t see how using the word “prayer” equates to endorsing a religion. I realize prayer is a religious act, but it doesn’t have to be. Like I mentioned, I’m not the praying type. When I hear prayer, I think “think quietly to myself.” In those thoughts, I may be talking to god, satan, the invisible pink unicorn, or just plain not thinking at all. I don’t feel at all forced to accept anyone’s version of god buy my own. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/23 "2005-09-08T19:44:35Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’m to lazy to look, but howsabout someone look up how many Americans “pray” or partipate in some equally religious activity. I would venture to say this is probably a pretty good chunk. This cannot be the appropriate rubric. If it were, you would be even happier if Bush had called for a National Day of Masturbation and Remembrance. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/24 "2005-09-08T19:46:03Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Nope > And: Refers to a logical condition that describes two statements which are both true. Sure. But it can also be a logical condition that describes two things which are present. National Day of Prayer and Rememberance. Lots of praying and remembering going on that day. It doesn’t mean you’re going to be forced to do either thing. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/25 "2005-09-08T19:46:18Z")
> [@Notorious Nik](#): > > I’m kind of with **Lord Ashtar** on that. This may very well be my failing, but I still can’t see how using the word “prayer” equates to endorsing a religion. I realize prayer is a religious act, but it doesn’t have to be. Like I mentioned, I’m not the praying type. When I hear prayer, I think “think quietly to myself.” In those thoughts, I may be talking to god, satan, the invisible pink unicorn, or just plain not thinking at all. I don’t feel at all forced to accept anyone’s version of god buy my own. As I said I’m not worked up about it, but he’s clearly endorsing prayer in the Judeo-Christian sense not in the meditative Buddhist sense. Also within your own post (though no doubt you didn’t mean it that way) you’re accepting SOME version of god in your prayer even if it’s your own. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/26 "2005-09-08T19:46:41Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Well it’s the fact that by telling the entire nation it’s a day of prayer he’s forcing them to acknowledge some type of religion and influencing them to believe in said religion. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Not to mention, I distinctly recall my high school principal getting on the intercom on 9-11 and telling us all to pray. No one complained, not even my atheist friends. Why? Because they understood the spirit of what he was saying, not that he was forcing them to LITERALLY pray. Yes, but he was endorsing prayer. It isn’t the forcing that bothers me as much as the endorsing, as in “(2) Neither can pass laws which aid one religion aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another.” > [@Ethilrist](#): > > That discriminates against people who want to pray. Or Alzheimer’s patients. I think this is a whoosh, but still, they can pray all they want, on any day, including that one, as loudly as they want. However, if a Principle of a public school decided he wants to have daily prayer before lunch, that would be an endorsement of religion. In contrast, should students spontaneously all decide to pray before lunch, they would not be a problem. Same with Presidents, and private citizens. P.S. Anaamika, that is nice to hear. On preview,the **Notorious Nik** is in the minority. From wiki: > [@](#): > > Prayer is an effort to communicate with God, or to some deity or deities, or another form of spiritual entity, or otherwise, either to offer praise, to make a request, or simply to express one’s thoughts and emotions. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/27 "2005-09-08T19:49:15Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > This cannot be the appropriate rubric. If it were, you would be even happier if Bush had called for a National Day of Masturbation and Remembrance. Which would make it different from every other day how, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/28 "2005-09-08T19:49:43Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Sure. But it can also be a logical condition that describes two things which are present. > > National Day of Prayer and Rememberance. Lots of praying and remembering going on that day. It doesn’t mean you’re going to be forced to do either thing. Fair enough point though I doubt the president ment it that way. Anyway time for me to turn in I work tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/29 "2005-09-08T19:50:56Z")
> [@Notorious Nik](#): > > I’m kind of with **Lord Ashtar** on that. This may very well be my failing, but I still can’t see how using the word “prayer” equates to endorsing a religion. Endorsing a religion? Maybe not. But it’s certainly endorsing _religion_. To me, it makes as much sense as the president calling for us all to dress up in pink speedoes and jump up and down while singing – both would be equally effective at alleviating suffering. So what if he doesn’t specify whether we should sing Come On Eileen or The Marine Corps Hymn? He is nonetheless endorsing the notion that dressing up in a pink speedo and jumping up and down while singing is an effective way to solve problems. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/30 "2005-09-08T19:51:32Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Nope > And: Refers to a logical condition that describes two statements which are both true. > > A logical operator that required that both of the relational operators it connects must be true for the whole statement to evaluate as true. If either of the relational operators are false, or if both are false, the statement will evaluate as false. > > in between words means both words must exist. > > you can’t do just one or the other they both have to be true to make the statement true. You can only pray AND remember you can’t just remember OR pray. Wow, that’s just… idiotic. If I go out to dinner with my friends Mike and Laura, and then we meet up with my friends Dave and Arthur and all see a movie, am I then not allowed to say, “I met with friends for dinner and a movie” because not all of those friends went to dinner? If some people pray, and some people remember, and some people pray _and_ remember, I see no reason not to call it a day of “prayer and rememberance”, as that is the best descriptor of it without making it sound completely stupid. I mean, would **you** vote for someone who declares “A National Day of Prayer And/Or Rememberance, Where Members of Subset A are Not Necessarily Members of Subset B”? Get the damned stick out of yer ass. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/31 "2005-09-08T19:55:01Z")
I just find it silly, and I don’t blame Bush any more than any other President—we are, after all, a country of wild-eyed religious fanatics, for all our bleatings about “separation of church and state.” What I wonder is, what are we supposed to pray for? • Dear God: Please stop killing us? Thanks. • Dear God: Please turn time backwards like Superman, so all those dead people will be undead? Except not like zombies, that would be creepy. • Dear God: Please look after us after the next time you try to kill us, as our various government agencies can’t do the job? • Dear God: Maybe just get us better government agencies? • Dear Other God: That first god keeps trying to kill us. If we sign on with you, can we get a better contract? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/32 "2005-09-08T19:56:37Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > • Dear God: Please turn time backwards like Superman, so all those dead people will be undead? Except not like zombies, that would be creepy. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa! ---
**Author:** ![Notorious\_Nik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/858c86/32.png) [@Notorious\_Nik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notorious_Nik)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/33 "2005-09-08T19:58:43Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Endorsing a religion? Maybe not. But it’s certainly endorsing _religion_. To me, it makes as much sense as the president calling for us all to dress up in pink speedoes and jump up and down while singing – both would be equally effective at alleviating suffering. So what if he doesn’t specify whether we should sing Come On Eileen or The Marine Corps Hymn? He is nonetheless endorsing the notion that dressing up in a pink speedo and jumping up and down while singing is an effective way to solve problems. > > –Cliffy Ignorance successfully fought. Thank you, **Cliffy** , for your analogy. I get it now, and you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Notorious\_Nik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/858c86/32.png) [@Notorious\_Nik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notorious_Nik)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/34 "2005-09-08T20:02:10Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > • Dear Other God: That first god keeps trying to kill us. If we sign on with you, can we get a better contract? Now that’s comedy! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/35 "2005-09-08T20:03:28Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. It’s not like prayer is mandatory, nor is it like Bush has done anything that every other president didn’t do before him. > > Not that I like President Cuckoobanananuts, but I think this is a non-issue. Bullshit. It’s offensive, exclusive, and he’s fuckin’ obsessed with it. He practically ORDERED the nation to pray during his initial non-response to the hurricane. Anyone who saw that knows what I’m talking about. “…and the American people WILL PRAY…” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/36 "2005-09-08T20:04:50Z")
It may not be illegal but it’s definitely inappropriate and offensive. The government has no business even _suggesting_ that people should pray, much less designating a day for it. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/37 "2005-09-08T20:10:06Z")
**Cliffy.** Still, among our Constitutional Rights is the right to _practice_ religion, and for many religions prayer is an efficacious thing, regardless of your amusing comparison to pink speedo jumping. As long as the state recognizes that fundamental quality without specifying any religious preference, it’s not a big deal to call for a day of prayer. There’s no safeguards in the Constitution for atheism. Other people’s praying does not infringe on the right not to believe or not to participate. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/38 "2005-09-08T20:12:56Z")
Part of my ire in the OP is that I was listening to the tail end of the President’s press conference announcing this, and I’ve been to church functions with less preaching.\* I missed the Clinton proclamations; or if I didn’t, I probably bit my tongue (easier, as an atheist, to complain in cyberspace - religion and work do not mix). ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/39 "2005-09-08T20:13:08Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > This cannot be the appropriate rubric. If it were, you would be even happier if Bush had called for a National Day of Masturbation and Remembrance. > > –Cliffy . . . that would be kind of sweet. What? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/40 "2005-09-08T20:14:21Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > As long as the state recognizes that fundamental quality without specifying any religious preference, it’s not a big deal to call for a day of prayer. Here is my WAG for why it is in fact endorsing a particular religion, legally, as opposed to common sense. Because, there are religions that don’t involve prayer, and the prez. is endorsing religions that do involve prayer over those that don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683.md?page=3)