# National Day of PRAYER and Rememberance **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683 "2005-09-08T18:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/121 "2005-09-09T16:28:28Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I see a contradiction here. Care to elucidate? > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Oh, and I am not even going to touch the “he’s going to take some time from filling sandbags at the levees to make the suggestion.” line. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/122 "2005-09-09T16:33:53Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > This is no more or less significant than National Pork Sausage day. That day is a deliberate slap in the face of Muslims, Jews, Vegans and beef-sausage preferrers all over America. It’s a sign of fascist theocratic hegemony. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/123 "2005-09-09T16:34:42Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > **Scott** : You are aware that the SCOTUS has ruled that actions such as you describe do NOT violate the establishment clause, right? And I hold that they were wrong to have done so. Notice all the recent cases? ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/124 "2005-09-09T16:39:14Z")
> [@furt](#): > > That day is a deliberate slap in the face of Muslims, Jews, Vegans and beef-sausage preferrers all over America. It’s a sign of fascist theocratic hegemony. But nobody’s \*\*\*forcing \* \*\* them to eat pork sausage. Heck, they could eat bacon instead; Canadian bacon, even. Or pork sausage-flavored tofu. . . can’t we all just get along? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/125 "2005-09-09T16:46:50Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > And I hold that they were wrong to have done so. You may be right, but how does that support the assertion that presidents ignore the true meaning of the establishment clause? All they’re ignoring is your interpretation of it. Let me ask again: should they consult you rather than the SCOTUS? > [@](#): > > Notice all the recent cases? Notice all the rulings in these recent cases, and that the rulings, as a whole, do not support your assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/126 "2005-09-09T16:50:19Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Oh, yes they will. You might not, and I appreciate that. But there are quite a few believers (of any religion) who look down on those of us with an absence of religion. So what? Do you really care what they think? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/127 "2005-09-09T16:54:42Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > No, it’s the utter stupidity of the RR corner that think prayer has any effect on solving problems, whether they’re national or personal in nature. And it’s the inherently marginalizing effect that a call to prayer has on those who find it a silly waste of time… Less time campaigning and more time doing your fucking job. Or is that too much to ask? You mean Religious Right fanatics like Clinton and Washington? Refresh my memory, if you like - what office is George Bush campaigning for? > [@](#): > > I don’t give a fuck whether you pray or not. This is happy news indeed. You can make our felicity complete by shutting your pie hole. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/128 "2005-09-09T17:02:22Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > But nobody’s \*\*\*forcing \* \*\* them to eat pork sausage. Heck, they could eat bacon instead; Canadian bacon, even. Or pork sausage-flavored tofu. . . can’t we all just get along? Oh, but we know what they _really_ mean. They’re deliberately trying to exclude non-pork eaters. It’s meatism, plain and simple. Anyone who can’t see that is obviously a Bush-lover. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/129 "2005-09-09T17:03:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I am suggesting that you are a moron. This is a non-responsive _ad hominem_ to the question I asked, so I’ll take that as evidence that, as usuual, you have no ability to support the stupidty that you type. “handstabbers?” Boy, that’s clever. I wonder where you learned that one. Tell me this, has anyone in this thread tried to stop you from praying? has anyone suggested that your free practice of religion should be in any way curtailed? Do you even comprehend this conversation on any level but “Christians, good - atheists, baaaad?” Personally, I have not said that the proclamation is unconstitutional (although it is arguably an endorsement of theism), I’ve said that it’s inappropriate and offensive. It’s also a piece of shallow, vapid and impotent symbolism seeing as how praying for those people isn’t going to do them a bit of fucking good. Most importantly, though, declaring a “day of prayer” is REDUNDANT. People already can and do pray every single day without the president telling them to. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/130 "2005-09-09T17:05:36Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > So what? Do you really care what they think? Yes, when it directly affects me, such as in the workplace. In theory, it shouldn’t. Theory and practice can differ. In practice, I work in places where religion doesn’t matter…as long as you have one (preferably mainstream, but including Far Eastern and South Asian mainstream religions). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/131 "2005-09-09T17:21:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You mean Religious Right fanatics like Clinton and Washington? > > Refresh my memory, if you like - what office is George Bush campaigning for? > > This is happy news indeed. You can make our felicity complete by shutting your pie hole. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, not Washington, so much. While he was nominally an Episcopalian, He was philosophically a Deist at best and all the available evidence suggests that he never prayed at all. He attended church rarely, never took communion and refused to kneel for prayers. His closest associates, some of them quite devout Christians, claimed that they never heard him express any theistic belief and never saw him pray even in private. Even on his deathbed, Washington did not pray or express any religious thoughts. Did Clinton ever call for a “Day of Prayer?” If so, then fuck him too. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/132 "2005-09-09T17:22:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Let me ask again: should they consult you rather than the SCOTUS? No. They should consult the actual text of the constitution and related texts. > [@](#): > > Notice all the rulings in these recent cases, and that the rulings, as a whole, do not support your assertion? No, what I see are a bunch of rulings meant to first put make a rubber stamp for theism, and then make the reasoning after. These ruling only enforce what I am saying. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/133 "2005-09-09T17:24:12Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Did Clinton ever call for a “Day of Prayer?” If so, then fuck him too. Yes, it was cited earlier in the thread. I knew if I hung around here long enough, eventually I’d find something I agreed with you, **DtC** ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/134 "2005-09-09T17:28:23Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > Care to elucidate? In the first sentence I quoted, you said “Endorsing prayer/religions involving prayer is not a big no-no.” In the second, you said (paraphrased) “We need to follow the lead of our leige. He sets the tone for our country” Well, if he sets the tone, and he say “Me say prayer good!” then he is quite clearly endorsing religions that use prayer. Oh, and as for me not wanting to touch the sandbag issue, well, think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/135 "2005-09-09T17:34:28Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > No. They should consult the actual text of the constitution and related texts.No, what I see are a bunch of rulings meant to first put make a rubber stamp for theism, and then make the reasoning after. These ruling only enforce what I am saying. What are the rules of statutory construction? ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/136 "2005-09-09T17:39:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, of course it is not a whoosh. > > The various atheists/agnostics/handstabbers are working themselves into a pink lather over this violation of SOCAS. There is no compulsion or violation involved, and therefore they are idiots. Duh. > > They are also hypocrites because they think Bush a foaming fundamentalist intent on imposing theocracy by declaring a National Day of Prayer and Remembrance - just like those other noted ideologues Washington, Lincoln, and Clinton. Um, okay. I am not getting myself worked into a lather over any “violations”. People can do whatever they damn well please. I think it’s ignorant to declare a day to pray when I’m sure any religious person who believes in prayer has been doing this every day of their lives. I was asking if it was a whoosh because you’re using a pretty broad brush there kid. Calling atheists/agnostics/“handstabers” (whatever the fuck that means) stupid and saying they ALL are in a “pink lather” over this is highly ignorant of you. I don’t think Bush is a fundie, I think he takes advantage of the fundies by making them believe he’s one of them. He talks the talk, but I have yet to see him walk the walk. He’s a liar and a hypocrite and a cherry-picker. There’s nothing religious about Bush or his cronies. They hide behind that disguise so he can walk all over the religious people in our country. I think he’s a disgusting pig, and I think that about ANY politician who publicly announces his religious views. Religion is personal and should be kept that way. I am not offended by a national day of prayer (although I find it stupid and pointless and just a PR move), but I am offended by you calling me stupid because I don’t believe in a big man living in the clouds that mysteriously no one ever sees. I don’t want to debate religion because I think some people need it to lean on and provide stability in their lives, I am not one of those people and probably never will be. But calling someone names because they don’t believe in any religion makes you an asshole and also shows everyone you are in fact NOT a religious person. Religious people are taught to be kind and forgiving, which makes that 85% of yours about down to 5% who actually practice. Until those claiming to be religious can grasp the basic aspect of BEING GOOD TO OTHERS AND TAKING CARE OF THE LESS FORTUNATE, then they are hypocrites, liars, and just going to church to feel better about their sins during the week. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/137 "2005-09-09T17:46:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What are the rules of statutory construction? They call them rules, but it is more of a guideline/fashions in rulings then any rule. How about you simply tell me what you claim they are? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/138 "2005-09-09T17:49:46Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > They call them rules, but it is more of a guideline/fashions in rulings then any rule. How about you simply tell me what you claim they are? If you don’t know the rules of construction, what is your basis for claiming that those rules were not followed by the court cases that have been cited above? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/139 "2005-09-09T17:50:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You mean Religious Right fanatics like Clinton and Washington? > > Refresh my memory, if you like - what office is George Bush campaigning for? > > This is happy news indeed. You can make our felicity complete by shutting your pie hole. > > Regards, > Shodan Eat me, pinhead. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683/140 "2005-09-09T17:52:42Z")
> [@PinkMarabou](#): > > I was asking if it was a whoosh because you’re using a pretty broad brush there kid. Calling atheists/agnostics/“handstabers” (whatever the fuck that means) stupid and saying they ALL are in a “pink lather” over this is highly ignorant of you. Allegedly, Madylyn Murray O’Hair stabbed someone in the hand with a fork for saying “God bless you” when she sneezed. **Liberal** is the only person I’ve ever seen use the word before, here or in real life. **Shodan** is picking up the torch. **Shodan** may stick the aforementioned fork up his ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-day-of-prayer-and-rememberance/320683.md?page=8)