# national debt crisis invective thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100 "2011-07-23T18:58:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/1 "2011-07-23T18:58:28Z")
I decided not to hijack my own post ( [#58](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14056083&postcount=58) ) for this: _Go ahead, start a global depression, let the American T.E.A. Party middle-income class get blamed for everybody’s bad decade. But in 20 years, your constituency & platform will be at least as discredited as they were by 1950 for causing the 1930’s domestic depression–which was rooted in similar attitudes. And this time whoever takes control & restores order may decide, like Churchill bombing Germany back to an agrarian society, never to let this sort of thing come to power again. I hope to live to see the Conservative Movement outlawed & its colleges transformed into re-education camps, that the backward masses of this country may become a competent modern electorate._ So, here’s a thread for whatever distracting, overwrought,or obnoxious thing you want to say about national economic policy, in whatever nation you feel strongly enough about. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/2 "2011-07-23T19:05:38Z")
I just swept all of our TSP funds into the G fund, and cashed out the few stocks I had still invested in. If Europe goes tits up and the righties have their way, this could get very ugly very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/3 "2011-07-23T19:20:26Z")
I wonder about this. It is my firm belief that the current Republican stances on fiscal policies and climate change will be proven to be disastrously wrong in the long run, but will they really pay for it? There is always another populist stance to take to gains support… ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/4 "2011-07-23T21:06:41Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I wonder about this. It is my firm belief that the current Republican stances on fiscal policies and climate change will be proven to be disastrously wrong in the long run, but will they really pay for it? Absolutely not. Heck, the fact that they can even pretend to suddenly be the party of fiscal responsibility after eight years of running up an enormous deficit with a insane marriage of profligate spending and tax cuts shows how willing people are to disregard history in favor of the fictional narrative their particular team wraps itself in. The fact is, Republican politicians are complete financial retards. They create huge messes and then cry and stamp their feet when the grownups have to step in and clean them up. Start a war, but have a fit if anyone asks that they come up with the revenue to pay for it. Identify an impending shortfall in Social Security, but refuse to either cut benefits or raise revenue to pay for it: instead, propose huge revenue cuts in the form of privatization and then drop the whole issue when people notice the difference between positive and negative numbers. Keep interest rates at record lows even after an unbelievably obvious housing bubble is well underway, push for more and more financial sector deregulation, then once everything starts collapsing, blame the guy who ends up averting the second Great Depression for spending money. Now the current game is: talk about how much spending needs to be cut, without actually proposing any spending cuts. Instead, only push for target spending numbers and budget-constraining amendments, so you don’t have to have your name on any of the spending cuts you’re demanding, because the children you represent only want spending cuts that don’t actually result in any cuts to the things they like. Which, in most cases, is most of the budget. For a retard double feature, reject the plan put forth by the other side (containing actual specifics) because it closes some tax loopholes for the richest people in the country and it’s far better to drive the economy into the ground than compromise on taxing rich people. Letting Republicans have any say in running the country is now like letting your drunk four year old drive your SUV. Really, it’s your own fault when it crashes. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/5 "2011-07-23T21:15:52Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > For a retard double feature, reject the plan put forth by the other side (containing actual specifics) because it closes some tax loopholes for \*\*the richest people in the country \*\*and it’s far better to drive the economy into the ground than compromise on taxing rich people. I believe you meant to say “job creators” here. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/6 "2011-07-23T21:16:25Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Absolutely not. Heck, the fact that they can even pretend to suddenly be the party of fiscal responsibility after eight years of running up an enormous deficit with a insane marriage of profligate spending and tax cuts shows how willing people are to disregard history in favor of the fictional narrative their particular team wraps itself in. > > The fact is, Republican politicians are complete financial retards. They create huge messes and then cry and stamp their feet when the grownups have to step in and clean them up. Start a war, but have a fit if anyone asks that they come up with the revenue to pay for it. Identify an impending shortfall in Social Security, but refuse to either cut benefits or raise revenue to pay for it: instead, propose huge revenue cuts in the form of privatization and then drop the whole issue when people notice the difference between positive and negative numbers. Keep interest rates at record lows even after an unbelievably obvious housing bubble is well underway, push for more and more financial sector deregulation, then once everything starts collapsing, blame the guy who ends up averting the second Great Depression for spending money. > > Now the current game is: talk about how much spending needs to be cut, without actually proposing any spending cuts. Instead, only push for target spending numbers and budget-constraining amendments, so you don’t have to have your name on any of the spending cuts you’re demanding, because the children you represent only want spending cuts that don’t actually result in any cuts to the things they like. Which, in most cases, is most of the budget. For a retard double feature, reject the plan put forth by the other side (containing actual specifics) because it closes some tax loopholes for the richest people in the country and it’s far better to drive the economy into the ground than compromise on taxing rich people. > > Letting Republicans have any say in running the country is now like letting your drunk four year old drive your SUV. Really, it’s your own fault when it crashes. Hmm, well put. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/7 "2011-07-23T21:38:12Z")
The problem is, we’re too “civilized” to string them up from the closest lamp-post when it all comes crashing down. A few salutary hangings might convince a few people that they screwed the pooch, economy-wise, and they should pay for it. Confiscate all their property and assets, turn their children out into the wilderness, and sew salt where their mansions once stood. Start with the upper echelons of AIG, Bear Stearns, and any other financial group that has every had anything to do with derivitives. Carve flutes from their bones and play them as we dance around the bonfires of their Mercedes’. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/8 "2011-07-24T03:33:30Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > The fact is, Republican politicians are complete financial retards. They create huge messes and then cry and stamp their feet when the grownups have to step in and clean them up. OTOH, the Democrats haven’t done a very good job with California these past, what?, 35-40 years? ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/9 "2011-07-24T03:42:59Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > OTOH, the Democrats haven’t done a very good job with California these past, what?, 35-40 years? Ever hear of Prop 13? I didn’t think so. That was the beginning of the end. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/10 "2011-07-24T03:52:24Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Ever hear of Prop 13? I didn’t think so. That was the beginning of the end. Of course I’ve heard of Prop 13 - I live in California, do you? And what does the state’s lack of ability to raise our property taxes until we can’t afford the house, with was passed over 30 years ago, have to do with our current economic woes? Or are you saying that if we could just squeeze more blood out of the middle class we wouldn’t be having these problems? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/11 "2011-07-24T04:44:56Z")
I said it in the other thread, but I’ll say it here again. I don’t think the Republicans are actively rooting for the economy to fail. The problem, I think, is that they just don’t give a fuck. What matters most is that Obama comes out looking bad. If the entire economic system comes crashing down in the process, well that’s just collateral damage as far as they’re concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/12 "2011-07-24T05:35:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > OTOH, the Democrats haven’t done a very good job with California these past, what?, 35-40 years? Yes, the California legislature contains a ton of retarded Democrats. You win a “yeah, but THEY…” point. Give yourself a pat on the back. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/13 "2011-07-24T05:50:17Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I said it in the other thread, but I’ll say it here again. I don’t think the Republicans are actively rooting for the economy to fail. The problem, I think, is that they just don’t give a fuck. What matters most is that Obama comes out looking bad. If the entire economic system comes crashing down in the process, well that’s just collateral damage as far as they’re concerned. That’s just the thing; if the economy fails, it’ll be under Obama’s leadership and “failed policies” and blah blah blah and that’ll be the launching pad into office for 2012. So in a way they ARE actively rooting for the economy to fail. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/14 "2011-07-24T06:38:20Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Yes, the California legislature contains a ton of retarded Democrats. You win a “yeah, but THEY…” point. Give yourself a pat on the back. Huh. Decades of Democrats doing the same thing as you say the Republicans are doing isn’t the same thing? Ignorance fought I guess…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/15 "2011-07-24T09:13:49Z")
One point I’d make is that “The Republican Party” gets something of a pass from some people, because it’s an “ancient (by American standards) venerable institution; it can’t possibly be as lunatic as those liberals claim it is.” If there were a brand-new Party with a brand-new name pursuing the same policies as the zombified GOP, it would be a laughing-stock and nothing more. By the way, an article at WSJ on-line with the interesting title “Forget About Black Swans, the One Floating Ahead is Neon” seems to conclude that a logical haven for those worried about Treasury default is (are you sitting down?) once again to move your funds to the “world’s safest investment”: > [@](#): > > And, even with disaster seeming inevitable, many investors may be paralyzed by uncertainty. “U.S. government securities have long been the yardstick for measuring the risk of most other investments,” he says. “One of the most disturbing things that we all have to get our minds around should the unthinkable happen,” he adds, “is that the reference point for pricing securities around the globe could be lost. No one can predict what would happen worldwide.” > > Not that Treasurys will necessarily get pounded. If the U.S. defaults or its credit rating is downgraded, says William Bernstein of Efficient Frontier Advisors in Eastford, Conn., Treasury prices would probably “go to 97 or 98,” losing only a few percentage points in value. … Mr. Bernstein expects corporate and municipal bonds to drop much more drastically if the Treasury market is hit by default or downgrade. And stocks, he says, could be massacred… > > Thus, keeping a sizable balance in short-term Treasurys—the securities that suddenly feel shaky—is probably a good idea in case stocks and bonds go on sale. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/16 "2011-07-24T10:04:58Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Huh. Decades of Democrats doing the same thing as you say the Republicans are doing isn’t the same thing? Ignorance fought I guess…:rolleyes: STOP IT! You know what he’s getting at. You are a horrible excuse for a human being if you make even a thread about possible WORLD ECONOMIC COLLAPSE into yet another “We got to beat them Democrats!” There is a fucking time and place for politics. It is not when there is a real emergency. All you are doing is the same exact shit that your people are doing in the legislature. You care more about scoring political gotchas than the real fucking world. This isn’t a fucking game. THis is real shit that people like you are causing. The only appropriate response in this thread are for you to fucking apologize for being wrong, and to disavow the people in your party that are trying to create a depression worse than the Great Depression. It is 100% not relevant what the Democrats are doing in California–because Californians are still fine. If this shit happens, the U.S., and even the world, may not be. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/17 "2011-07-24T12:10:03Z")
Oh, this is just precious. You’re all going to love this. > **['Super Congress': Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887)** > > 'Super Congress': Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body > [@](#): > > \*\*\*‘Super Congress’: Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body \*\*\* > > WASHINGTON – Debt ceiling negotiators think they’ve hit on a solution to address the debt ceiling impasse and the public’s unwillingness to let go of benefits such as Medicare and Social Security that have been earned over a lifetime of work: Create a new Congress. > > This “Super Congress,” composed of members of both chambers and both parties, isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, but would be granted extraordinary new powers. Under a plan put forth by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and his counterpart Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), legislation to lift the debt ceiling would be accompanied by the creation of a 12-member panel made up of 12 lawmakers – six from each chamber and six from each party. > > Legislation approved by the Super Congress – which some on Capitol Hill are calling the “super committee” – would then be fast-tracked through both chambers, where it couldn’t be amended by simple, regular lawmakers, who’d have the ability only to cast an up or down vote. With the weight of both leaderships behind it, a product originated by the Super Congress would have a strong chance of moving through the little Congress and quickly becoming law. A Super Congress would be less accountable than the system that exists today, and would find it easier to strip the public of popular benefits. Negotiators are currently considering cutting the mortgage deduction and tax credits for retirement savings, for instance, extremely popular policies that would be difficult to slice up using the traditional legislative process. Just what the situation calls for - more committees! Boehner’s a big fan of this as well but Republicans in general have started insisting that there should only be a short term debt ceiling increase, which means we’d need to do all this again in six months. Democrats have refused to consider a short term plan and I think they’re right. How this is supposed to get around the idea that the Republican rank & file won’t vote in favor of any bill with revenue increases is beyond me. I assume the Republicans are counting on the fact that Democratic leadership would be easier to bully in a small group. I don’t know. It’s starting to sound like cuts to Medicare & Social Security are pretty much agreed upon by Dems & Pubs alike - they’re just arguing about repealing the tax cuts. I can’t even hope that the Dems who would vote for that will lose their jobs next year, because that means we’d just end up with more Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/18 "2011-07-24T12:53:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The problem is, we’re too “civilized” to string them up from the closest lamp-post when it all comes crashing down. A few salutary hangings might convince a few people that they screwed the pooch, economy-wise, and they should pay for it. Confiscate all their property and assets, turn their children out into the wilderness, and sew salt where their mansions once stood. Start with the upper echelons of AIG, Bear Stearns, and any other financial group that has every had anything to do with derivitives. > > Carve flutes from their bones and play them as we dance around the bonfires of their Mercedes’. Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/19 "2011-07-24T13:09:35Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I can’t even hope that the Dems who would vote for that will lose their jobs next year, because that means we’d just end up with more Republicans. Not if we primary the incumbent Democrats, and elect the challengers. Difficult, but not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100/20 "2011-07-24T13:45:36Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > . . > > The fact is, Republican politicians are complete financial retards. . . once everything starts collapsing, blame the guy who ends up averting the second Great Depression for spending money. > > . . . I am applauding. . . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-debt-crisis-invective-thread/590100.md?page=2)