# National Engineers Week, 2/18-24/01 (Engineers and non-engineers, c'mon in!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 20, 2001, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174 "2001-02-20T03:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/41 "2001-02-23T19:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by YWalker \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > > > > Hey. If you are interested, this was debated back and forth some time ago in this thread: > > [Engineering license?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=37020) > > \*\*\* sigh \*\*\*\* > > Shoulda known the topic had already been beaten to death before I joined the party. At least I didn’t try to open a new thread about it… > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > > > > Note the term “Professional”. I don’t believe it says you cannot call yourself an “Engineer” at all, just not a PE. > > As you noted the wording on the statutes is a little contradictory in places. I feel it could be interpreted either way. But, since a lot of the top guys in the state government agencies my firm sometimes does work for are very much of the opinion that it DOES say that only PE’s may use the title, we pretty much toe the line to avoid antagonizing them. > > Like you said in the other thread — I wish the profession could come to some kind of consensus on who could use the title “Engineer.” To me, it makes sense that anyone with a degree in engineering and/or with a PE license (since it is possible to be a PE without a degree) could use the title Engineer, and only PE’s could use the term Professional Engineer. The way the statutes work now, they can be used to inhibit degreed individuals from using the title while allowing others who have no background in the engineering profession to feel perfectly free to co-opt the title. > > It’s our title ---- We stole it fair and square from the train drivers.😛 > \*\* Actually in California, at least, you can’t call yourself any type of Engineer unless you’re licensed. Though (and I’m not an engineer) decry the inappropriate use of the title by garbage collectors and such, I always thought that if you have a BS in engineering, and are working in the field, you should be able to call yourself one. But that’s not necessarily the reality of the situation. I think you guys have gotten yourselves into a real quandary with the name issue. You need to have a title to distinguish the highest grade of engineers, the ones with licenses like Anthracite. The problem with the term _professional engineer_ is that it implies that engineers-in-training are not quite _professional_. That doesn’t seem quite fair, does it?. Instead of using the term _Professional Engineer_ how about _Licentiate in Engineering_? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2001, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/42 "2001-02-23T20:12:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by porcupine \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by porcupine \* > > > **No one has hugged me this week. ☹** > > > > That’s cuz software engineers are just programmers while REAL engineers make STUFF! > > \*\* > > Bite me gently, **drop**. 😉 > > Actually this really is a pet peeve of mine, because I get called a “programmer” all the time by people who don’t know any better (not that there’s anything wrong with being a programmer, it’s just **not** what I do). I had to take all the core engineering classes in college, a ton of physics, a ton of math, etc. I did not get a liberal arts degree (though I would not call those that did “programmers”;\*\* So what do you call us, then? \*\* > [@](#): > > I don’t write programs that other people have designed and spec’ed; I develop requirements, design systems, and implement portions of them. \*\* There are tons of programmers out there who do the analysis and design, and develop requirements, as well as implementation, and who don’t have engineering backgrounds. Some do have liberal arts degrees, and a few even have no degree whatsoever. Probably the best programmer of my acquaintance has no college education; he started right after high school. I started after finishing college, having studied something else. The field is full of upstarts and people like me who shoehorned their way in. To concede a point, though, I don’t think it’s right to use the term programmer to describe someone without relevant education who has just decided to be a programmer, and doesn’t have any substantial experience yet. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/43 "2001-02-24T03:04:42Z")
Sorry I’m so slow getting back to this thread. One of our trainers was sick so I ended up having to spend the rest of the week in Tucson to cover for him. **Falcon:** > [@](#): > > _hugs and smooches Strainger_ > > There. I hugged and kissed MY engineer for the week. ::Wringing hands:: Ah, yes. My evil plan worked just as intended. 😉 **FairyChatMom** : > [@](#): > > The majority of my time is spent dealing with landing gear issues on the P-3… I was responsible for landing gear layout and configuration on my aircraft design team my senior year. The “challenge” there was trying to figure out where and how to store it with a gun under the fuselage for one type of mission and a fuel tank on the wing for another type of mission. Do you run into issues like that? Probably worse in real life, huh. **pcubed:** > [@](#): > > You’re prabably one of the people I curse at as I sit here and wonder why I get matrix singularities and why automesh never works quite as well as one would hope. No, you don’t understand. I am your friendly neighborhood _Applications_ Engineer. I help you work through your problems and do what I can to make your eigenvalue extraction and participation factor calculations as smooth and efficient as possible. **JuanDeCuba:** > [@](#): > > Is it some kind of secret we aren’t supposed to know about until graduation? Hell, it was a secret to me until I saw the poster in the customers’ lobby! **Geobabe:** > [@](#): > > So what should I read into it, sweetheart (considering your long standing crush)? Well, of course, _you_ can read anything into it that you want to! Thanks all for weighing in. I’ve enjoyed reading about your thankless jobs! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2001, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/44 "2001-02-24T07:11:06Z")
I also sent a hug to my all-time favorite engineer. That would be my big brother, Jim, who is one of the two best brothers in the entire world and an all-around very cool guy. **Strainger** , you develop a hankering to learn any more geology, you just let me know! Or chat about Brahms, or whatever… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2001, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/45 "2001-02-24T07:33:02Z")
**javaman** , If someone does full lifecycle SW development as you mentioned, but does not have an engineering degree, I wouldn’t call him/her a programmer. Probably software developer is a fair description/title. I think the term “programmer” implies a fairly limited scope. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Nemo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@Capt.Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2001, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/46 "2001-02-24T10:44:56Z")
My sophmore year in college, they asked me what type of engineer I wanted to be. Since I used to be an auto mechanic, I picked mechanical engineering. Figured it would save me some effort in school. Ha. Work in a refinery. Maintenance type, with a lot of older equipment. Some of it pre-WWII. I like my job, people I work with, our major client, and my boss. Ran across this site about a month ago. Seemed like an intelligent bunch, so I registered. Hey DZ, where do you jump? There are about 5-10 engineers I know who skydive in the Houston area. But some are programers. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/47 "2001-02-28T00:33:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Geobabe \* > **Strainger** , you develop a hankering to learn any more geology, you just let me know! Or chat about Brahms, or whatever… 😃 So, **Geobabe** , how do you think Brahms’ study of natural remanent magnetism inspired the Andante Moderato movement of his 4th symphony, if at all? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/48 "2001-02-28T13:25:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Capt. Nemo \* > \*\*Hey DZ, where do you jump? \*\* Nowhere. That’s for crazy people. This was just my email for dropping off projects when I freelanced. It stuck. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/49 "2001-02-28T17:58:39Z")
So this is where all the geeks are. Anybody seen my slide rule? Mechanical engineer by training and even some actual (past) job experience. I did sheet metal packaging for custom AC Plasma displays for military applications for nearly thirteen years. Two of which were spent developing the launch/guidance control panel for the Harpoon missile. I actually got to attend an at-sea test launch of one of those babies after the project was completed. Did some time as a structural engineer for a consulting firm. I left that place when it became apparent they wanted to station me nearly permanently at the limestone quarry of a client. What a godawful filthy place to work. Hotter and dustier than hell in the summer, colder than a witch’s tit in a brass bra in February in the Yukon in the winter. And did I mention the dust _burns_? Now, I’m desiging outside plant for CATV and telecom companies, mostly long-haul (20 to 2000 mile runs) fiber optics. It’s pretty dull. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2001, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/50 "2001-02-28T18:15:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > **It’s pretty dull.** If WE think our jobs are dull, can you imagine how dull they seem to OUTSIDERS? Real comment I hear more often than I’d prefer: **Gee, how can you stand doing that all day? It would bore me to death!** ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/51 "2001-03-01T00:31:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Strainger \* > \*\* > > **FairyChatMom** : > > > [@](#): > > > > The majority of my time is spent dealing with landing gear issues on the P-3… > > I was responsible for landing gear layout and configuration on my aircraft design team my senior year. The “challenge” there was trying to figure out where and how to store it with a gun under the fuselage for one type of mission and a fuel tank on the wing for another type of mission. Do you run into issues like that? Probably worse in real life, huh. > \*\* Actually, my job is to figure out ways to repair landing gear components that are flying longer than originally anticipated. I also get to rewrite the maintenance manuals and evaluate parts to determine whether they should be fixed or scrapped. It’s a living! ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/52 "2001-03-01T01:49:45Z")
In memory of my dad, gone now for nearly 7 years, a marine engineer and owner of a small family company that built hundreds of steel and aluminum boats and barges over its 3-generation, 57 year history. He spent many, many hours over the drafting table “lofting” blueprints. His classic engineer quote: “How can you talk without a pencil and paper?” Miss you, dad ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174/53 "2001-03-01T03:27:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hometownboy \* > **"How can you talk without a pencil and paper?"** Aye-men. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-engineers-week-2-18-24-01-engineers-and-non-engineers-cmon-in/55174.md?page=2)