# National ID card? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399 "2019-09-17T20:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/21 "2019-09-18T12:30:01Z")
Better yet - do away with the cards and go with implants. Or maybe forehead tattoos. What could possibly be the harm? I think that an inherent element of the concept of “freedom” so dear to many (most?) Americans, is the ability to be free from government to the greatest extent possible, other than to the extent YOU wish to give up that freedom for certain purposes. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/22 "2019-09-18T12:52:25Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Or maybe forehead tattoos. What could possibly be the harm? A nation of people with bangs. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/23 "2019-09-18T13:07:13Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > A nation of people with bangs. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/24 "2019-09-18T14:31:30Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Is this one of those weird American things again? Because in Germany having personal ID on hand is perfectly normal and accepted. There’s a national ID, and pretty much everyone gets one. The fact that, in the US, there are a great many things you need ID for (including, as of late in many places in the US, voting) makes the existence of a national ID program pretty reasonable. > > Hell, Social Security is [basically used as a really shitty national ID already](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus). > > Not that the reasons listed above are necessarily good reasons, but the idea that a country can demand photo ID for such a fundamental right as voting and then proceed to not provide one is just beyond asinine. American identity documents are issued by regional authorities (eg: driver’s license), with the exception of the social security card for working citizens and the federal passport for travelers. There is a federal framework as to the minimum requirements to present regional identification for federal purposes (the aforementioned Real ID Act). Also of relevance, most voter identification laws are also regional. The federal government does not require voter identification except when initially verifying a new voter who registers by mail (as opposed to in person). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/25 "2019-09-18T15:59:46Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > American identity documents are issued by regional authorities (eg: driver’s license), with the exception of the social security card for working citizens and the federal passport for travelers. There is a federal framework as to the minimum requirements to present regional identification for federal purposes (the aforementioned Real ID Act). > > Also of relevance, most voter identification laws are also regional. The federal government does not require voter identification except when initially verifying a new voter who registers by mail (as opposed to in person). > > ~Max Okay, granted, but… people don’t treat the individual states as though their borders tend to matter very much. Going from Tennessee to Kentucky (or, for that matter, from Maine to Arizona) is seen less as “traveling from one country to another” and more “moving across the country”. And this causes problems when your ID in one state suddenly isn’t good in another state for whatever stupid reason. This is one of those things I really don’t like about federalism - instead of one bureaucracy to deal with, now you have 50. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/26 "2019-09-18T17:45:01Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Is this one of those weird American things again? Because in Germany having personal ID on hand is perfectly normal and accepted. Hell, even our developing-world asses[can manage it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_identity_card)… I just wish they’d roll this and the driver’s license into one card. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/27 "2019-09-18T17:48:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Okay, granted, but… people don’t treat the individual states as though their borders tend to matter very much. Going from Tennessee to Kentucky (or, for that matter, from Maine to Arizona) is seen less as “traveling from one country to another” and more “moving across the country”. Right, that is how it is supposed to be. The freedom to move between states is considered a right of the people protected by Article IV of the Constitution. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And this causes problems when your ID in one state suddenly isn’t good in another state for whatever stupid reason. This is one of those things I really don’t like about federalism - instead of one bureaucracy to deal with, now you have 50. We do have the Real ID act for federal purposes, but if your state doesn’t comply (there are good reasons not to) then yeah, it’s a pain. A birth certificate + drivers license or birth cirtificate + voter registration + Form DS-71 (identity witness affidavit) can net you a passport, though. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/28 "2019-09-18T19:24:01Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Okay, granted, but… people don’t treat the individual states as though their borders tend to matter very much. Going from Tennessee to Kentucky (or, for that matter, from Maine to Arizona) is seen less as “traveling from one country to another” and more “moving across the country”. And this causes problems when your ID in one state suddenly isn’t good in another state for whatever stupid reason. This is one of those things I really don’t like about federalism - instead of one bureaucracy to deal with, now you have 50. When did you have an ID not honored by a different state? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/29 "2019-09-18T22:29:23Z")
The whole issue will soon be moot. Facial recognition will not be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/30 "2019-09-18T23:09:59Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I’m in Europe. There’s some stores here which don’t even accept cash anymore. Checks are obsolete - major stores don’t accept them. Retailers in my town universally use wireless / contactless transactions. It helps that you folks in Europe have better/more secure/less expensive/etc. access to the web/cloud/internet. Here in the states the whole thing is a mess and identity theft rampant. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/31 "2019-09-18T23:11:53Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Better yet - do away with the cards and go with implants. Or maybe forehead tattoos. What could possibly be the harm? The harm is that you chip possession and pets/animals, and I don’t want to be the government’s chattel (that I might already be is arguable, but I’m still trying to resist). Forcible tattooing by the government is a little to close to Nazis tattooing numbers on people for my comfort. Or was that intended as sarcasm? I can’t always tell. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/32 "2019-09-18T23:34:18Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Or was that intended as sarcasm? I can’t always tell. When was the last time you heard somebody _seriously_ say “What could possibly be the harm?” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/33 "2019-09-18T23:56:42Z")
Have you ever worked in corporate America? It’s a weekly thing, there. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/34 "2019-09-19T00:01:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Have you ever worked in corporate America? It’s a weekly thing, there. Yikes. I assume pianos fall regularly. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/35 "2019-09-19T02:38:01Z")
The OP has been banned. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/36 "2019-09-19T02:58:42Z")
> [@susan](#): > > The OP has been banned. And that’s going on his Permanent Record, too! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/37 "2019-09-19T03:20:02Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Doesn’t the [Real ID](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act) act serve the same purpose as a national ID card? Do we need another law passed mandating a national ID card? Real ID is a stupid racist idea and so is this. The only reason is to hurt minorities, those that dont have the money or records to get one of these. And so they wont be able to vote, making the GOP happy and they become second class non-people. This is a racist Republican Jim Crow idea. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/38 "2019-09-19T03:24:19Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > In this Information Age, it would be a simple thing for the government to issue everyone in America – at federal expense – a national ID card, keyed to your SSN, and corresponding to a database in DC that would include a file on you with all your recorded interactions with public authorities – your birth certificate, (public) school records, driving license/record, arrest records if any, citizenship/residency status, tax returns, etc. – all saved in pdf, and which any (authorized) public official could call up by swiping your card… You do know that getting all the various birth certificate records by county is simply impossible right? So people without a copy will have to pay to get a copy- if they can. because of course native Americans, and other peoples dont always have them. The poor, the minorities. This is a idea that would make the hate filled racist minds of the GOP chortle with glee as they have yet another reason to bring back Jim Crow laws. And of course - “saved in pdf” means hackable. _Easily_ hackable. Bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/39 "2019-09-19T07:01:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Really? I work in a big box store. Only a small minority of our transactions are wireless. Around 1/3 still involve cash in part or whole, most of the rest use plastic (we still get a few paper checks). > > I think the “first adopters” and high tech cutting edge folks tend to over-estimate their numbers. No: when it comes to banking, they tend to be outside of That Country Where People Still Use Checks. > [@Broomstick](#): > > It helps that you folks in Europe have better/more secure/less expensive/etc. access to the web/cloud/internet. > > Here in the states the whole thing is a mess and identity theft rampant. Less expensive, my ass, even before you account for income differential. And if by “better” you mean “faster” excuse me while I ROFL. As for identity theft oh, it happens… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399/40 "2019-09-19T11:11:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You do know that getting all the various birth certificate records by county is simply impossible right? So people without a copy will have to pay to get a copy- if they can. because of course native Americans, and other peoples dont always have them. The poor, the minorities. In a prior RealID thread it was brought up that not all birth records are by county in the US. Apparently, some states (Texas was one named) do it by state, New York City by the borough, there are about 40 cities that are [not located in a county](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_city_(United_States)), and why this matters is that a state like Texas (or at least the DMV people who issue RealID’s) seem incapable of imagining that not every does things exactly like they do, leading to government minions in one state refusing to acknowledge the official documents of another location as real and legitimate. Which is also a very real problem for people trying to obtain RealID’s. (Thank Og that the minion doing my RealID didn’t actually _read_ my birth certificate, otherwise she would likely have objected that no county was listed… as indeed, I was not born in a county, having emerged into existence in one of those “independent cities” I mentioned. I had enough other problems getting that piece of plastic.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-id-card/840399.md?page=3)