# National identity card for US **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136 "2007-08-27T18:37:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Micro\_Dot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Micro\_Dot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Micro_Dot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/1 "2007-08-27T18:37:28Z")
What would be harmed by admitting the fait accompli of having a national identity system, the social security number, and issuing national identity cards like most other developed (and undeveloped) countries? What are we saving or “preserving” by pretending that the feds don’t know these things about us? If you work, pay taxes, are a dependent on someone else’s taxes, have any bank accounts or credit accounts, or collect any social services or retirement income, then there is a filing every April with your name, age and address on it. So, they know pretty much everyone who has any other kind of identity card. ---
**Author:** ![Micro\_Dot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Micro\_Dot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Micro_Dot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/2 "2007-08-27T18:40:47Z")
And for the paranoid, I’m only talking about _voluntary_ cards. Same as for a driver’s license or state non-driver ID card. You sign up and then you have something to use to cash checks, apply for jobs, apply for bank accounts. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/3 "2007-08-27T18:46:32Z")
Once again, [Douglas Adams was ahead of his time](http://epeus.blogspot.com/2002/12/douglas-adams-on-digital-id.html) ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/4 "2007-08-27T19:22:55Z")
[QUOTE=Micro Dot] What would be harmed by admitting the fait accompli of having a national identity system, the social security number, and issuing national identity cards **like most other developed countries?.** [/QUOTE] the bolded words answer your question. Because, if American did what other nations do, it wouldn’t be America, right? It’s slippery slope that leads to disaster– "First they came for the people who wanted an ID card for everyone, and I didn’t speak up… "Then they came for the people who wanted decent health care for everyone… "Then they came for the people who wanted gun control… see—it’s the first step in destroying America’s freedoms! Americans simply can’t get their heads around anything that smells of “socialism”. The concept of government control brings out dark fears in people. I dunno why–but fear of Big Brother is a deep, deep part of the American psyche. The public honestly and genuinely does not want the government to issue a national ID card, like so many other democracies. Just like they don’t want the government to require employers to give maternity leave, or 2 weeks vacation a year. Americans don’t mind private organizations tracking every moment of their lives.Credit agencies are allowed to spy on everybody and compile secret records. But letting the democratically elected government do it scares people. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/5 "2007-08-27T19:37:05Z")
[QUOTE=chappachula] The public honestly and genuinely does not want the government to issue a national ID card, like so many other democracies. Just like they don’t want the government to require employers to give maternity leave, or 2 weeks vacation a year. [/QUOTE] Speak for yourself. I have never had a problem with a national ID. How is it functionally any different than a driver’s license? I also don’t think there’s really been a thorough polling of the American people on the issue because it’s never been close enough to a reality to worry about. I think more people are unopposed to the national ID than are opposed to it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/6 "2007-08-27T19:50:15Z")
[QUOTE=Micro Dot] You sign up and then you have something to use to cash checks, apply for jobs, apply for bank accounts. [/QUOTE] The perfect item for identity theft? ---
**Author:** ![netsplit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@netsplit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netsplit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/7 "2007-08-27T19:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=chappachula] But letting the democratically elected government do it scares people. [/QUOTE] If Bush ran your government wouldn’t you be wary of it too?😛 We have state ID and driver’s license cards. Why do we need national ID cards? What function would they serve that my driver license\state ID doesn’t? Not only that but by doing it state by state each IDs can be customized to the needs of the region. Some places need cheaper IDs, some places have trouble with forgery and need better security on their IDs, some places want their IDs all pretty, some places want their IDs all spartan, Then there’s infrastructure. Who dispenses these IDs? Getting a replacement Driver’s license is a 45 minute (plus wait time) round trip to one of many conveniently placed secretary of states in Michigan. In Rhode Island there was DMV less then a mile away. (different states have different agencies that handle that kind of thing) I have no clue where to get a social security card in Rhode Island and the one Michigan is something you have to clear your day for. Socialized medicine is something that could do alot of good, and it’s a shame we don’t have that. However gun control resistance is something you’ll never understand unless you understand how sacred our Constitution is to many, and to write us off screwballs without undersanding that is extremely ignorant/dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/8 "2007-08-27T20:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=Micro Dot] What would be harmed by admitting the fait accompli of having a national identity system, the social security number, and issuing national identity cards like most other developed (and undeveloped) countries? [/QUOTE] You might want to look up the Real ID Act, which effectively accomplishes this by imposing standards on state issued ID cards and linking their databases. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/9 "2007-08-27T21:22:59Z")
[QUOTE=Micro Dot] And for the paranoid, I’m only talking about _voluntary_ cards. Same as for a driver’s license or state non-driver ID card. You sign up and then you have something to use to cash checks, apply for jobs, apply for bank accounts. [/QUOTE] I have a passport. Does that fill the bill? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/10 "2007-08-28T00:00:33Z")
I was originally dead-set against this, but I’m starting to rethink it. Lot to be said for it, with certain very strict safeguards, it could be a positive thing. But its the safeguards I worry about. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/11 "2007-08-28T00:08:09Z")
I think it would be a waste of taxpayer money, with little benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/12 "2007-08-28T01:05:13Z")
Passports already serve this purpose and they are voluntary. You don’t have to actually travel to get one and they trump driver’s licenses and everything else except for some military ID’s when authoritative proof of ID is required such as starting a new job or opening financial accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/13 "2007-08-28T03:55:01Z")
The old adage, “putting all one’s eggs in one basket” should be a warning to all. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/14 "2007-08-28T04:23:34Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] Passports already serve this purpose and they are voluntary. You don’t have to actually travel to get one and they trump driver’s licenses and everything else except for some military ID’s when authoritative proof of ID is required such as starting a new job or opening financial accounts. [/QUOTE] Or, suprisingly, if you’re trying to buy a beer in Texas… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/15 "2007-08-28T04:30:38Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] Passports already serve this purpose and they are voluntary. You don’t have to actually travel to get one and they trump driver’s licenses and everything else except for some military ID’s when authoritative proof of ID is required such as starting a new job or opening financial accounts. [/QUOTE] Passports trump military identification cards because the IDs aren’t proof of US citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/16 "2007-08-28T07:28:49Z")
[QUOTE=Micro Dot] And for the paranoid, I’m only talking about _voluntary_ cards. Same as for a driver’s license or state non-driver ID card. You sign up and then you have something to use to cash checks, apply for jobs, apply for bank accounts. [/QUOTE] But as you say, we already have voluntary cards–they’re just issued by state governments instead of the federal government. The issue that really bothers me about ID cards isn’t so much which level of government issues them as it is that whole “voluntary” thing. Granted, it’s all but impossible in our society to exist without some form of state-issued plastic with your name, address, and photograph on it; nonetheless, some of us wish to cling to that last shred of voluntary-ness. Personally, I don’t think you should have to have a license from the government to just walk around in public. So, I wouldn’t be vehemently opposed to a federally issued ID program on the same lines as existing voluntary state-issued non-driver ID cards, but I’m not sure what the advantages are, either, and I don’t want to take that last step to having to have “papers” just to step outside your own home. [QUOTE=chappachula] Americans don’t mind private organizations tracking every moment of their lives.Credit agencies are allowed to spy on everybody and compile secret records. But letting the democratically elected government do it scares people. [/QUOTE] I would love to see some laws putting some tougher restrictions on private companies compiling information on us without our fully informed knowledge and consent. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/17 "2007-08-28T09:50:32Z")
They’ve been trying for yonks to introduce a National ID card in the UK. It will come I feel and it’s gonna cost each UK citizen around £28 at the last estimate ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/18 "2007-08-28T10:01:52Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] It will come I feel and it’s gonna cost each UK citizen around £28 at the last estimate [/QUOTE] Which is only a small proportion of what it’s costing in total - £5bn (£100 per head) in official figures, two or three times that in independent studies. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/19 "2007-08-28T10:02:29Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] They’ve been trying for yonks to introduce a National ID card in the UK. It will come I feel and it’s gonna cost each UK citizen around £28 at the last estimate [/QUOTE] Yes - and it is often said to be ‘voluntary’. And it will be. Unless you want to do any of the zillion of activities from opening a bank account, getting a passport and seeing a doctor to accessing a public service that will require it. ‘Voluntary’ cards quickly become compulsory, to all intents and purposes. And I’ll lay any odds the whole scheme will cost five times the initial estimate and cost the public triple figures. And the ‘unbreakable’ encryption will be broken in 72 hours of release by some Scandinavian geek. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136/20 "2007-08-28T10:45:14Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] ‘Voluntary’ cards quickly become compulsory, to all intents and purposes. [/QUOTE] We’ve had voluntary ID cards in Sweden for decades. Not compulsory yet, formally or practically. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-identity-card-for-us/417136.md?page=2)