# National Review devotes an entire issue to "Against Trump" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 22, 2016, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868 "2016-01-22T07:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/61 "2016-01-23T00:08:56Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > So your prediction is that Trump will get the nomination and then, no doubt, move on to win the general election and the presidency? Please say yes! That would be so fine a prediction on so many levels! šŸ˜ƒ My prediction is that the pundits will continue to be full of themselves/shit. The punditā€™s predictions of how the voters must respond to the pundits instructions has been amusing, to say the least. Trump this, Bernie that. What a hoot. I have no idea who will get the nominations of either party. Trump is under attack by the pundits and Hillary is under investigation by the FBI. As of today, Iā€™m thinking Bernie is the odds on favorite to be the next POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/62 "2016-01-23T00:29:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > ā€¦and Hillary is under investigation by the FBIā€¦ You know, everywhere you look these days people are talking about how Hillary is under investigation by the FBI! Or is that just you? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/63 "2016-01-23T01:26:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What does that have to do with repudiating Trump, even if it were true? > > Regards, > Shodan I mean theyā€™ve been discredited independent of the fact they condemned TRUMP-this is just icing on the cake or the nail in the coffin. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Heā€™s not a good salesman. Heā€™s a swaggering cunt. That level of confidence is attractive, but Iā€™m pretty sure Trump couldnā€™t make a living selling cars or timeshares, if you stripped his fame and wealth away. Heā€™s so ignorant that he has no self-doubt. Which is why dumb people think he should be in charge. They assume he knows what heā€™s doing. > > A Trump follower doesnā€™t need to hear how heā€™ll ā€œmake America great againā€ they just trust that Trump will do it. Funny considering TRUMP has actually some policies-like sealing the border, ending the trade deficit, protecting Medicare/Social Security, spending money on infrastructure instead of useless wars-and people seem to like it. His ideas may be objectionable on numerous grounds but it cannot be denied 1) he has ideas and 2) that they are popular ideas at least with a segment of the electorate. > [@](#): > > If the GOP base werenā€™t composed of ignorant, misinformed, angry people, Trump would have no success at all. Heā€™s just a key that fits the lock of the GOP base. Itā€™s not that heā€™s some brilliant strategy expert, heā€™s just resonating with the degenerate yokels that vote in GOP primaries. And your classist and possibly racist dismissal of the white working-class only drives them further into the arms of TRUMP. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/64 "2016-01-23T01:55:11Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Funny considering TRUMP has actually some policies-like sealing the border, ending the trade deficit, protecting Medicare/Social Security, spending money on infrastructure instead of useless wars-and people seem to like it. His ideas may be objectionable on numerous grounds but it cannot be denied 1) he has ideas and 2) that they are popular ideas at least with a segment of the electorate. Exactly. He has ideas that are anathema to the GOP base. But they still swoon to him. Because theyā€™re in love with the sizzle, not the steak. Trumpā€™s visceral disgust is what they identify with, not his ideas. > [@](#): > > And your classist and possibly racist dismissal of the white working-class only drives them further into the arms of TRUMP. Thatā€™s utter fucking goofy nonsense. White people arenā€™t the problem. Ignorant people mislead by RW media are the problem. Also, donā€™t snidely call me a possible racist unless I have it coming, okay? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/65 "2016-01-23T02:12:27Z")
I enjoyed reading the National Review take. Itā€™s always nice to see a good roasting of Trump, and especially in the form of well-reasoned arguments from the right wing. But itā€™s nothing but entertainment without an analysis of why the majority of their party appears to be lining up behind a candidate who is either bugfuck insane or trying very hard to cultivate that impression. Until they confront that reality, the party will continue to fracture. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/66 "2016-01-23T02:14:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Exactly. He has ideas that are anathema to the GOP base. But they still swoon to him. Because theyā€™re in love with the sizzle, not the steak. > > Trumpā€™s visceral disgust is what they identify with, not his ideas. Actually his ideas are perfectly in line with the white working-class segment of the GOP electorate that supports him and thatā€™s why heā€™s doing so well. If you look at polls, large majorities of Republicans like Medicare, Social Security, and higher taxes on the wealthy. Their voting for Republicans has been driven more by resentment on racial and culture war grounds such as the view that welfare/new government spending disproportionately benefits the ā€œwrongā€ people, abortion, and guns as well as the War on Terror then agreement with the GOP on socioeconomic issues. And now they have their ideal candidate-someone who unapologetically demands deportation of illegal immigrants _as well as_ solving the trade deficit, someone who protects their guns _as well as_ their Social Security and Medicare. > [@](#): > > Thatā€™s utter fucking goofy nonsense. White people arenā€™t the problem. Ignorant people mislead by RW media are the problem. > > Also, donā€™t snidely call me a possible racist unless I have it coming, okay? ā€œDegenerate yokelsā€ is very much a classist term and since it implies these people are genetically degraded, arguably racialized as well. Not against white people in general, but the ā€œrednecksā€ certainly. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/67 "2016-01-23T02:23:40Z")
People are still trying to stump the Trump? Good luck. > [@doorhinge](#): > > My prediction is that the pundits will continue to be full of themselves/shit. The punditā€™s predictions of how the voters must respond to the pundits instructions has been amusing, to say the least. Trump this, Bernie that. What a hoot. Forget the pundits, check out this thread. All these Trump threads will be hilarious to bump if Trump wins. Yeah, Trump has no idea what heā€™s doing, which is why heā€™s playing everyone like a fiddle. Libs are pretty sure what conservatives want too, despite all evidence to the contrary. Itā€™s ā€œWhatā€™s the Matter with Kansas?ā€ all over again. > [@](#): > > As of today, Iā€™m thinking Bernie is the odds on favorite to be the next POTUS. Too bad Bernie gets blown out in any state where melanin exists. On the plus side, Trump/Hillary debates will be top tier entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/68 "2016-01-23T02:32:37Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > ā€¦why the majority of their party appears to be lining up behind a candidate who is either bugfuck insane or trying very hard to cultivate that impressionā€¦ Quibble with the ā€œmajorityā€ behind ā€œa candidateā€. Several highly motivated minorities line up behind one of several bugfuck crazy shoebats. But none of respective certifiable candidates has a majority unto themselves. Doesnā€™t mean shit to a tree, but I was in a quibbling mood, ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/69 "2016-01-23T02:33:53Z")
Fair enough. Point still stands, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/70 "2016-01-23T02:37:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Actually his ideas are perfectly in line with the white working-class segment of the GOP electorate that supports him and thatā€™s why heā€™s doing so well. If you look at polls, large majorities of Republicans like Medicare, Social Security, and higher taxes on the wealthy. Their voting for Republicans has been driven more by resentment on racial and culture war grounds such as the view that welfare/new government spending disproportionately benefits the ā€œwrongā€ people, abortion, and guns as well as the War on Terror then agreement with the GOP on socioeconomic issues. And now they have their ideal candidate-someone who unapologetically demands deportation of illegal immigrants _as well as_ solving the trade deficit, someone who protects their guns _as well as_ their Social Security and Medicare. Weā€™re talking about GOP primary voters. Trumpā€™s message is hardly tailor-made to court them. > [@](#): > > ā€œDegenerate yokelsā€ is very much a classist term and since it implies these people are genetically degraded, arguably racialized as well. Not against white people in general, but the ā€œrednecksā€ certainly. I purport, that most adults who are seriously supporting Donald Trump for the most powerful, and arguably important job on Earth, are either misinformed, ignorant, and/or a fucking nut. Living in the South or liking Nascar is not what marks someone as a degenerate yokel. Degenerate yokels (as I used the term) can show themselves, by, among other things, fervent support of unserious racist candidates who offer nothing but a peacock walk. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/71 "2016-01-23T02:37:59Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I enjoyed reading the National Review take. Itā€™s always nice to see a good roasting of Trump, and especially in the form of well-reasoned arguments from the right wing. But itā€™s nothing but entertainment without an analysis of why the majority of their party appears to be lining up behind a candidate who is either bugfuck insane or trying very hard to cultivate that impression. Until they confront that reality, the party will continue to fracture. _NR_ canā€™t confront that situation because the Movement Conservatism that Dr. William F. ā€œItā€™s Pronounced Frahnkensteenā€ Buckley himself started is largely responsible for it. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/72 "2016-01-23T02:44:11Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Weā€™re talking about GOP primary voters. Trumpā€™s message is hardly tailor-made to court them. It is absolutely tailor-made to a large portion of the GOP electorate because many of them are indeed socioeconomically marginalized white lower-middle/working-class voters. And thereā€™s a reason why TRUMP is stronger among those who identify as Democrats as well as newer voters. > [@](#): > > I purport, that most adults who are seriously supporting Donald Trump for the most powerful, and arguably important job on Earth, are either misinformed, ignorant, and/or a fucking nut. > > Living in the South or liking Nascar is not what marks someone as a degenerate yokel. Degenerate yokels (as I used the term) can show themselves, by, among other things, fervent support of unserious racist candidates who offer nothing but a peacock walk. I would say anyone supporting a candidate who unironically believes in the Laffer Curve or thinks gutting Social Security/Medicare is a good idea are far more ignorant and delusional then TRUMP supporters. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/73 "2016-01-23T02:51:19Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I would say anyone supporting a candidate who unironically believes in the Laffer Curve or thinks gutting Social Security/Medicare is a good idea are far more ignorant and delusional then TRUMP supporters. Fight my ignorance hereā€¦ whatā€™s behind your disparagement of the Laffer curve? Also, why do you keep putting TRUMP in all-caps? Is there an acronym, or is it some weird branding thing youā€™re trying to start? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/74 "2016-01-23T02:58:15Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It is absolutely tailor-made to a large portion of the GOP electorate because many of them are indeed socioeconomically marginalized white lower-middle/working-class voters. And thereā€™s a reason why TRUMP is stronger among those who identify as Democrats as well as newer voters. Iā€™d attribute that to name recognition, ignorance of the issues, and the perceived idea that he, ā€œspeaks his mind.ā€ > [@](#): > > I would say anyone supporting a candidate who unironically believes in the Laffer Curve or thinks gutting Social Security/Medicare is a good idea are far more ignorant and delusional then TRUMP supporters. Oh, Trump would probably be a better president than Cruz. But thatā€™s hardly a high bar. Trump thinks that heā€™ll deport millions. Mexico will build a border wall for us. Heā€™ll just magic our trade numbers. That weā€™ll put a quarter of the worldā€™s population on a no-fly list. Heā€™s stupid. Not to mention, his tax plan helps the rich and balloons the deficit. If he doesnā€™t believe in the Laffer-curve, he still acts like it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/75 "2016-01-23T03:05:45Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Actually his ideas are perfectly in line with the white working-class segment of the GOP electorate that supports him and thatā€™s why heā€™s doing so well. If you look at polls, large majorities of Republicans like Medicare, Social Security, and higher taxes on the wealthy. Their voting for Republicans has been driven more by resentment on racial and culture war grounds such as the view that welfare/new government spending disproportionately benefits the ā€œwrongā€ people, abortion, and guns as well as the War on Terror then agreement with the GOP on socioeconomic issues. And now they have their ideal candidate-someone who unapologetically demands deportation of illegal immigrants _as well as_ solving the trade deficit, someone who protects their guns _as well as_ their Social Security and Medicare. > ā€¦ This. A hundred times this. Trump is, plus/minus a few details, essentially re-running Ross Perotā€™s populist-rightist campaign. Which was very successful given where Perot and his nascent organization had to start from. Many populist rightists are the common decent middle class folks of America. Itā€™s not all knuckle-dragging wannabe Muslim-shooters. The genius (or spectacular good fortune) of Trump is that unlike Perot heā€™s running this campaign from _inside one of the two main parties_. In fact the party thatā€™s all but assured of controlling both halves of Congress come January. Itā€™s sort of like the Alien creature that grew by feasting on the astronautā€™s life force before bursting out of his chest with fatal consequences. As a third-party candidate Trump would have to defeat the Republicans. As things are playing out heā€™s co-opted them into being his launching pad and his fuel source. And as with the Alienā€™s astronaut, itā€™s not clear the Republicans will survive the burst-out in any recognizable form. This is utterly fascinating to watch. I just wish like heck it was happening in Outer Slobovia, not the United States. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/76 "2016-01-23T03:09:27Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > This is utterly fascinating to watch. I just wish like heck it was happening in Outer Slobovia, not the United States. A thousand times this. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/77 "2016-01-23T03:09:44Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Fight my ignorance hereā€¦ whatā€™s behind your disparagement of the Laffer curve? Itā€™s an article of faith for the GOP, but itā€™s not well supported. > [@wikipedia](#): > > Numerous leading economists have rejected the rationale of the Laffer Curve. When asked whether a ā€œcut in federal income tax rates in the US right now would raise taxable income enough so that the annual total tax revenue would be higher within five years than without the tax cut,ā€ 96% of economists surveyed by the University of Chicago in 2012 disagreed. In response to this survey question, Richard Thaler of the University of Chicago said, ā€œThatā€™s a Laffer.ā€[2] ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/78 "2016-01-23T03:17:12Z")
> [@Wikipedia via Lobohan](#): > > Numerous leading economists have rejected the rationale of the Laffer Curve. When asked whether a ā€œcut in federal income tax rates in the US right now would raise taxable income enough so that the annual total tax revenue would be higher within five years than without the tax cut,ā€ 96% of economists surveyed by the University of Chicago in 2012 disagreed. In response to this survey question, Richard Thaler of the University of Chicago said, ā€œThatā€™s a Laffer. To me that doesnā€™t seem like a repudiation of the Laffer curve itself, but rather an argument of where current US taxation rates exist on the Laffer curve. The curve just posits that a happy medium exists, it doesnā€™t purport to say whether we are ahead or behind that happy medium. It could just as easily be an article of faith for socialists who think taxes could be a bit higher. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/79 "2016-01-23T03:33:33Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Fight my ignorance hereā€¦ whatā€™s behind your disparagement of the Laffer curve? Well, for one thing, nobody knows what a [Laffer curve](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Laffer_Curve) actually looks like. Itā€™s a truism that 0% taxes and 100% taxes will each yield zero revenue, but no economist has any solid theoretical basis for plotting any point between those ends. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868/80 "2016-01-23T03:36:16Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And now they have their ideal candidate-someone who unapologetically demands deportation of illegal immigrants _as well as_ solving the trade deficit, someone who protects their guns _as well as_ their Social Security and Medicare. Or who at least is selling them that bill of goods whether or not itā€™s real or he can deliver. And if so much airtime, bandwidth and print space is being dedicated to that campaign itā€™s because \*some \*nontrivial segment of that target demo (enough to make people who are supposed to know better begin to sweat) claim to be not just willing to listen to his pitch but buying in. _Someone_ responds to obnoxious ads and buys the goods, or they would not exist. I agree with **LSLGuy** , Donaldā€™s a shorter and a flipper and a hype man who cares about getting his cut and then f\*\*\* it if the enterprise goes down the tubes and takes everyone else with it, heā€™ll just have his name unbolted from the front of the building; but he knows how to play the frontman in a reality-elimination game and the campaign _has_ been allowed to turn into that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-devotes-an-entire-issue-to-against-trump/743868.md?page=5)