# National Review gets out jackhammers, digs through rock bottom to find whole new low **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099 "2008-10-09T00:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/1 "2008-10-09T00:44:31Z")
[This](http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Y2U5YTJiMzhjNDNhZTcwZGYyZjcyMzQyZWNmNjJjN2E=) is like something you’d expect to see on Stormfront. The thesis, written by John Derbyshire, is essentially this: If elected President, Barack Obama will stifle scientific inquiry because genomic research will reveal that white people are genetically superior to black people. This is where we’re at now. The National Review is supposedly a respectable and legitimate, if conservative, organization. The more Obama widens his lead, the uglier it gets. We’re finding out who everybody really is now, aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/2 "2008-10-09T00:52:34Z")
Hmm. “Cultural Marxist”. I have no clue what that’s supposed to mean, but it sure sounds cool. Yeah, I’m a Cultural Marxist, y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/3 "2008-10-09T00:55:07Z")
Well, to be fair to Derbyshire, he’s saying more that an Obama victory will stifle scientific inquiry in genomic research because the left is hostile to the idea that there are innate genetic differences in ability and IQ and such, and so a Democratic Presidency might discourage research on such things. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/4 "2008-10-09T00:55:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The thesis, written by John Derbyshire, is essentially this: If elected President, Barack Obama will stifle scientific inquiry because genomic research will reveal that white people are genetically superior to black people. That is not the thesis. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/5 "2008-10-09T01:03:47Z")
> [@](#): > > A couple of items further on, science blogger Jason Malloy posts the transcript of an NPR discussion about _The Bell Curve_ from October 1994, featuring “civil rights lawyer and writer” Barack Obama, who “lives in Chicago.” What did our young civil-rights lawyer and writer (?) think of Herrnstein and Murray’s pop-psychometrics masterpiece? He no like. > > > [@](#): > > > > Mr. Murray isn’t interested in prevention. He’s interested in pushing a very particular policy agenda, specifically, the elimination of affirmative action and welfare programs aimed at the poor. With one finger out to the political wind, Mr. Murray has apparently decided that white America is ready for a return to good old-fashioned racism so long as it’s artfully packaged … Well, DUH! It’s surprising Obama’s above characterization of _The Bell Curve_ is even considered controversial at this date, even by the _NR_ crowd. Even more surprising is the author’s assertion, a few paragraphs down, that it reflects “cultural Marxism” in Obama’s world-view. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/6 "2008-10-09T01:05:10Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > That is not the thesis. The hell it isn’t. Derbyshire is an admitted racist, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/7 "2008-10-09T01:10:51Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Hmm. “Cultural Marxist”. I have no clue what that’s supposed to mean, but it sure sounds cool. Yeah, I’m a Cultural Marxist, y’all. Cultural Marxism is the “Frankfurt School”, which produced sociologists like Horkheimer, Marcuse and Adorno. (I’ve also seen it used to refer to Gramsci, although obviously he was never part of the Institute) It’s also called Critical Theory, and it’s an attempt to use Marxist theory to explain culture, especially looking at how mass culture is shaped and controlled by socioeconomic factors. William Lind has this theory that Cultural Marxism is endemic on the left (which I think he drasticly overstates, although there’s no doubt that the Frankfurt School had a major influence on academic leftist though, and that the American left has adopted some of its ideas on culture), and that it’s used by the left to criticize traditional western values with the ultimate goal of destroying Western Civilization (which I think is totally off the wall). But anyway, people like William Lind and Pat Buchanan will use “cultural Marxist” to refer to the left wing in general. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/8 "2008-10-09T01:14:58Z")
Thanks, **C A**. Slight ignorance reduction achieved. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/9 "2008-10-09T01:17:42Z")
This meme keeps popping up on the RW in many odd ways, some rather unobtrusive. See [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=278544) thread. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/10 "2008-10-09T01:19:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The hell it isn’t. Derbyshire is an admitted racist, by the way. [Apparently.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Derbyshire#Race_and_homosexuality) (Has a Chinese wife, though.) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/11 "2008-10-09T01:28:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The hell it isn’t. Derbyshire is an admitted racist, by the way. A [cite](http://collectedmiscellany.com/2003/11/an-interview-with-john-derbyshire/) for those who are curious: > [@](#): > > I am a homophobe, though a mild and tolerant one, and a racist, though an even more mild and tolerant one, and those things are going to be illegal pretty soon, the way we are going. He later [“clarified”](http://kevinholtsberry.com/kh/2003/11/18/derbyshire-interview-follow-up/) > [@](#): > > I grew up in England where that level of antisemitism was pretty well > universal. It was perfectly harmless. Jews thrived and prospered. > (Margaret Thatcher’s cabinet was full of them.) Negative feelings on that > level are, I believe, perfectly normal and healthy. > > I do not support laws against private discrimination. If I do > not want to hire black people (or white people), that should be my right. > If I do not want to let a room in my house to a homosexual (or a > heterosexual, or a Muslim, or a Christian), that should also be my right. > These things are no proper business of the public authorities. > > Homophobia: I described myself as “a mild, tolerant homophobe.” This means that I do not like homosexuality, and I think it is a net negative for > society. As a conservative, inclined to give the benefit of the doubt (when > there is doubt) to long-established practices, I cannot help note that there > has never been a human society, at any level of civilization, that has > approved egalitarian (that is, adult-adult) homosexuality. Male-male > buggery has been proscribed in every society that ever existed. I am > inclined to think that there are good reasons for these universal > prohibitions. To say the least of it, male homosexuality is very > unhealthy–much more so than, for example, cigarette smoking. A lot of the > people who howl “Homophobe!” at me whenever I write anything about this > topic are people who have to swallow a bucket of pills eight times a day > just to stay alive. Is it any wonder I have trouble taking them seriously? > Homosexuality both male and female is also antisocial, in a profound sense. > I do not believe that any stable society can be founded on any basis other > than heterosexual marriage. Under modern conditions, I think you would have > to add “monogamous,” too. > […] > > Racism: All I mean there is that I believe that race is real, and > important. Nowadays, that makes you a “racist.” Again, I consider myself > mild and tolerant here–I don’t believe in any discrimination by public > authorities, and of course I am familiar with the awful historical record of > the United States in the matter of race slavery. I take individual people > as they come, as I believe every sane person does. I can imagine > circumstances where I would certainly practice private discrimination; but, > as I have said, I don’t see anything wrong with that. > > […] > > Unfortunately, most of the truths about race are statistical truths. This > makes them hard for ordinary people to grasp, as most people can’t > understand statistics, even at the most elementary level. If you stand up > in a room full of people and say: “On average, men are taller than women,” I > guarantee–I GUARANTEE!–that some person will stand up and say, in great > indignation: “What about Jenny? She’s taller than you, she’s taller than > most men.” People just don’t GET statistical truths. Statistics makes them > angry. (Let me tell you, as the author of a pop-math book, there are people > made angry by just ordinary math!) You see this in the obloquy that now > attaches to the word “stereotype.” In fact, stereotypes are very useful as > a way of organizing the world. Human life would not be possible without > them! I wrote an article about this. Offered without comment, other than the underlining, which was mine. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/12 "2008-10-09T01:29:33Z")
Derbyshire’s also an ex-Christian apostate, pretty much the odd man out at NR. Whew! BG, a friend of mine back at grad school was kinda racist. I was arguing with him about interracial marriage (I see nothing wrong with it) & asked him about marrying Orientals. His response “Well, IQ-wise, they are definitely not inferior so I don’t get as worked up about it.” To which I responded “So really, Orientals should be the ones careful about marrying us whites, huh?” He laughed & admitted I had a point. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/13 "2008-10-09T01:36:59Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > That is not the thesis. Derbyshire most certainly does believe that further genetic research will prove beyond doubt that black people are inherently inferior. So do the guys who run Gene Expression. (Brown people who hate black people, and the white women who love them?) There’s just no sorting out the science from the politics in this field of inquiry. Quite a bit of the research Derb and the gnxp boys quote was financed by neo Nazis. White nationalists are still some of the most enthusiastic backers and promoters of these ideas. It’s a tad, shall we say, unrealistic, to expect anybody in the Obama administration to fund projects which involve partnerships with Nazi sympathizers. Scientists, that is to say, real scientists, not neo eugenicist crackpots, will get plenty of funding to examine the genetic basis of the problems which affect all Americans. Cancer, diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, schizophrenia, Down’s syndrome, autism, not to mention the biggest of them all, old age. Plenty of work there for legit scientists without giving any money to guys who measure black guy’s dicks at shopping malls. [http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1271](http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1271) > [@](#): > > Rushton was reprimanded by his school, the University of Western Ontario, for accosting people in a local shopping mall and asking them how big their penises were and how far they could ejaculate. “A zoologist doesn’t need permission to study squirrels in his backyard,” he groused (Rolling Stone, 10/20/94). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/14 "2008-10-09T01:52:22Z")
With regard to which potential administration will “kill science”, I feel more comfortable with the prospect of an Obama presidency. Obama has firmly stated support for stem cell research ([contrast his views](http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=42) with those of John McCain). Obama (after an initial stumble) has also backed mass vaccination (McCain has stated his belief in the discredited theory of an autism-vaccine connection). It’s Republicans in recent times that’ve shown far more willingness than Democrats to stifle research that doesn’t suit their ideological leanings (i.e. climate change). Derbyshire is a bigoted ass. National Review has embarassed itself by giving him a platform. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/15 "2008-10-09T02:02:40Z")
If you’ve got a disaster like Sarah “I’ve seen the footprints” Palin, you’ll say anything to change the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/16 "2008-10-09T02:35:23Z")
Well, whatta you know. I’m wrong. Here’s a cookie. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/17 "2008-10-09T02:39:36Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Here’s a cookie. Awwww. Stock loses that bad? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/18 "2008-10-09T02:46:51Z")
Since when do right-wingers give a flying fuck about scientific inquiry?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/19 "2008-10-09T02:50:44Z")
Backatcha, **Scylla**. Here’s a cookie for rising above being wrong. Respect earned. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099/20 "2008-10-09T02:51:05Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > With regard to which potential administration will “kill science”, I feel more comfortable with the prospect of an Obama presidency. [Indeed.](http://www.waronscience.com/home.php) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-gets-out-jackhammers-digs-through-rock-bottom-to-find-whole-new-low/467099.md?page=2)