# National Review on Obama's birth & citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559 "2009-07-28T16:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/21 "2009-07-28T17:59:16Z")
A moment of lucidity from NRO: > [@](#): > > The myth that Barack Obama is ineligible to be president represents the hunt for a magic bullet that will make all the unpleasant complications of his election and presidency disappear. That’s what the “Well, why not just give in to them and show them anything they want?” crowd doesn’t get – these people have their _souls_ invested in this. Records will always be incomplete or faked, government officials will be liars or afraid to say the truth, court cases will be horrible judgments by liberal activist judges. Nothing will _ever_ be good enough because they desperately need this belief that someday they’ll be proven correct and all this scary Obama stuff will go away. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/22 "2009-07-28T17:59:42Z")
I’m skeptical that even that one person was a Hillary supporter. There were a lot of fake Hillary supporters trying to use her as cover to attack Obama. What was that bogus Republican front group posing as disgruntled Hillaryites? the Cougars or something? In any case, it was _de rigueur_ for a while for Republican operatives to try to plant Obama attack stories in places like Drudge, and then try to pass them off as having come from Hillary. In any case, regardless of the origin of the birther nonsense, it never had any currency among Hillary fans and has been embraced, nurtured and fed entirely by righties. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/23 "2009-07-28T18:01:35Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > A moment of lucidity from NRO: > That’s what the “Well, why not just give in to them and show them anything they want?” crowd doesn’t get – these people have their _souls_ invested in this. Records will always be incomplete or faked, government officials will be liars or afraid to say the truth, court cases will be horrible judgments by liberal activist judges. Nothing will _ever_ be good enough because they desperately need this belief that someday they’ll be proven correct and all this scary Obama stuff will go away. Agreed, but I’m not sure that “magic bullet” is really the smartest metaphor they could have come up with. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/24 "2009-07-28T18:03:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Agreed, but I’m not sure that “magic bullet” is really the smartest metaphor they could have come up with. Depends on what they’d like to see happen. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/25 "2009-07-28T18:10:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Just as I said. :rolleyes: > > The concept originated with some lone whackjob, not with “the ‘camp’ of Clintonites”, and certainly not, as you so eyelash-flutteringly deny insinuating, with the Clinton _campaign_. > > But hey, it worked on **Shodan**. I did not insinuate anything about the Clinton campaign; your sensors are misaligned. 😉 And it wasn’t just one whackjob, either. If you are going to throw stones at the Republicans for having fan base members who think this stuff, you should at least acknowledge that there are people who are Democrats who are willing to believe it, too. The difference, of course, as some have pointed out, is that the Democrats that represent them aren’t pandering to them with official statements and actions. If the shoe were on the other foot, now, … :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/26 "2009-07-28T18:12:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There were a lot of fake Hillary supporters trying to use her as cover to attack Obama. What was that bogus Republican front group posing as disgruntled Hillaryites? the Cougars or something? PUMAs. But they really were Hillary Clinton supporters, not GOP plants. It’s just that PUMA was more or less **two people** , Darragh Murphy and Will Bower. They were unquestionably Democrats; I’m sure a lot of folks who gave money to PUMA were Republicans, but when you get right down to it, PUMA was two cranks whose opinion, in the end, wasn’t worth a cat turd. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/27 "2009-07-28T18:13:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m skeptical that even that one person was a Hillary supporter. There were a lot of fake Hillary supporters trying to use her as cover to attack Obama. What was that bogus Republican front group posing as disgruntled Hillaryites? the Cougars or something? In any case, it was _de rigueur_ for a while for Republican operatives to try to plant Obama attack stories in places like Drudge, and then try to pass them off as having come from Hillary. > > In any case, regardless of the origin of the birther nonsense, it never had any currency among Hillary fans and has been embraced, nurtured and fed entirely by righties. As I have already said upthread, here in rural South Carolina, there are people who are Democrat by self-identification, who disbelieve the citizenship of the President. It’s not “fed entirely by righties.” Of course, it’s convenient to believe that so that you can demonize it and feel saintly about the situation. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/28 "2009-07-28T18:25:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There were a lot of fake Hillary supporters trying to use her as cover to attack Obama. What was that bogus Republican front group posing as disgruntled Hillaryites? I think you are thinking of Rush Limbaugh’s Operation Chaos. Their effectiveness is debatable. > [@](#): > > “Operation Chaos was born primarily for the purpose assuming Obama was going to be the nominee at the get-go of this,” Limbaugh explained on his show. “He needs to be bloodied up politically since McCain is not going to do it. Since the Republican Party is not going to be on the field in this way, somebody’s gotta bloody up Obama. The only person that can do it is Hillary, and she can’t do it if she’s not in the race – and so the purpose was Operation Chaos was to keep her in the race and to have her bloody up Obama in the process of staying in the race.” > > SOURCE: [http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/is-limbaughs-op.html](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/is-limbaughs-op.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/29 "2009-07-28T18:26:45Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > As I have already said upthread, here in rural South Carolina, there are people who are Democrat by self-identification, who disbelieve the citizenship of the President. It’s not “fed entirely by righties.” Of course, it’s convenient to believe that so that you can demonize it and feel saintly about the situation. :rolleyes: “Righties” and “self-identified Democrats” are not mutually exclusive, especially in the South. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/30 "2009-07-28T18:26:48Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > It’s not “fed entirely by righties.” Of course, it’s convenient to believe that so that you can demonize it and feel saintly about the situation. :rolleyes: That’s ridiculous. Go find me a left-wing site that claims Obama isn’t a citizen. If you can find me one, I’ll immediately go find 100 right-wing sites that claim it. This idiotic rumor is most certainly being fed by “righties”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/31 "2009-07-28T18:30:54Z")
I love the “birther” controversy. It’s kinda like like a troll thread in the msm. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/32 "2009-07-28T18:30:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think you are thinking of Rush Limbaugh’s Operation Chaos. Their effectiveness is debatable. I reember that too, but it was PUMA I was thinking of. I remember going to their website once or twice and seeing that the boards there were dominated by McCain-Palin supporters without the slightest indiction that they cared about, or even agreed with a single policy supported by Hilary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/33 "2009-07-28T18:31:14Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I did not insinuate anything about the Clinton campaign; your sensors are misaligned. 😉 Then perhaps you could tell us why you chose the words “the camp of Clintonites”. > [@](#): > > And it wasn’t just one whackjob, either. Guy’s name is Berg. From Pennsylvania. > [@](#): > > If you are going to throw stones at the Republicans for having fan base members who think this stuff, you should at least acknowledge that there are people who are Democrats who are willing to believe it, too. I’m opposed to silliness on all sides, sure. You should be too. > [@](#): > > If the shoe were on the other foot, now, … :dubious: Same old same old. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/34 "2009-07-28T18:32:05Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I love the “birther” controversy. It’s kinda like like a troll thread in the msm. There is no such thing as the “MSM.” ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/35 "2009-07-28T18:54:48Z")
This is NEVER going away, t’other night G. Gordon Liddy was on _Hardball_ and mentioned, without any contradiction, the thoroughly discredited story about Obama’s grandmother saying that she was present at Obama’s birth in Kenya :rolleyes:. CMC fnord! > [@RickJay](#): > > … when you get right down to it, PUMA was two cranks whose opinion, in the end, wasn’t worth a cat turd. They were much more effective when they stuck to [threatening cravasse spanning railroad men](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIfl2o44zb0)! ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/36 "2009-07-28T18:57:11Z")
I think the more interesting aspect that comes out of all this, is reflected in the fact that the first “birthers” were Hilary supporters. When people are really invested in supporting one candidate against another, many of them will be in a state of mind where they’ll really, truly believe just about anything bad about the guy who’s beating them. At first, it was Hilary supporters, because she was the first to fall. Now it’s the Republicans. But the overall story is more interesting and instructive. It shows how people can be whipped up into a frenzy of _hatred_ for their opponents, whether in war or politics, over stuff that shouldn’t matter. Our brains seem to be hard-wired to be manipulated, and it takes some attention to critical thinking not to let that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/37 "2009-07-28T18:57:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Then perhaps you could tell us why you chose the words “the camp of Clintonites”. If I said “A person with the Straight Dope Message Board handle ElvisL1ves came from the camp of the Clintonites”, would it be inaccurate? If someone else said “A guy who likes cats came from the camp of people whose handle makes fun of Ayn Rand”, would cat haters have some genuine grievance? I thought time healed all wounds, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/38 "2009-07-28T19:02:58Z")
**Paranoid** , don’t bother. Where **ElvisL1ves** is concerned, nothing I say can be taken as valid. Been that way for years, despite the fact that his viewpoint on politics is closer to mine than he perhaps realizes. Sadly. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/39 "2009-07-28T19:07:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no such thing as the “MSM.” Now who’s being naive? You’ve never heard of men who have sex with men? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559/40 "2009-07-28T19:08:52Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > nothing I say can be taken as valid. When you can’t, or won’t, defend it, that’s the only possible conclusion. But that’s nobody else’s fault than your own. You know how it works. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/national-review-on-obamas-birth-citizenship/504559.md?page=3)