When did they renounce the platform? In February 1926 some people tried to change it some, but Hitler pronounced that a betrayal to those who died in the putsch, it was declared immutable later that year and was never changed.
You made an assertion in post 7 and never bothered to provide any evidence for it at all. The evidence is all around, here is wikipedia on National Socialism “Large segments of the Nazi Party staunchly supported its official socialist, revolutionary, and anti-capitalist positions and expected both a social and economic revolution upon the party gaining power in 1933.”
I am an American right winger, but that has nothing to do with the facts.
Here is a test for you: present some evidence for your views. This is general questions, you can’t just state your opinions over and over, you need to cite facts.
Our evidence is history. The Nazis took power and didn’t do anything socialist. Your evidence appears to be that Hitler said they were socialist once and we can trust anything Hitler said.
It has everything to do with the fact that the only people in the world who try to portray the Nazis as socialists are, as I said, American right-wingers. Nowhere else on Earth would that line be taken seriously, because everyone on Earth who isn’t a right-wing American can tell the difference between Nazis and Communists.
Dude, listen: if the Nazis and the Communists were the same thing, why were they deadly enemies? Can you answer me that? Why, if they shared the same political philosophy, was the biggest part of the biggest war in the history of the planet a fight between Nazi Germany and the USSR?
Oh, and here’s my cite:
And before you come back with an “All Wikipedia is made up” answer, check the inline cites on the page itself, which are to non-Wiki academic sources.
Nice slogan. It really sums up the movement. You should print up some t-shirts.
That is off topic. The Nazis hated the communists because they were competing for power in Germany and because as I said in my first post communists were internationalists and Nazis were hypernationalists. By your logic the mensheviks were not socialist because they did not like communists. By your logic the Vietnamese were not communists because they invaded communist Cambodia and the red Chinese were not communists because they fought the Vietnamese.
In this line of thinking Nazis were not socialists because they fought the Soviets, then they must not have been capitalists because they fought the French.
“Your evidence is history” seems to be another way of saying you do not have any. I have cited the Nazi party platform which was never changed or repudiated in any manner. There is much more evidence here is an excerpt from a 1929 tract written by Goebbels, the section is called Why we are socialists"
Read the whole thing here:
I have cited socialist actions which the Nazis took while in office such as wage and price controls, government control of hiring, government control of farming. Here is what James Burnham of the OSS wrote about the German economy in 1940.
They also set up a national labor union the DAF from wikipedia:
Anyone with an open mind can see that the evidence is clear.
No, it’s my way of saying I base my beliefs on reality.
I have news for you: Hitler was a bit of a fibber. Sometimes he’d say things he didn’t mean. Why did he do this? Well, this will surprise you but there are some people who were dumb enough to believe something a Nazi said. I could give a relevant example here but we’re in the wrong forum for that.
In actuality it was a license to politically destroy anyone who was intent on actual worker’s representation. It was also in the pockets of big business (well, businesses that supported the Nazis, at least.) I assume you are aware that you were not allowed to change jobs without your work papers, which were under control of your employer, right? Doesn’t sound like a very good set of worker’s rights there to me.
I understand that the general conception of Hitler is negative. If you have ever viewed Hitler’s speeches with subtitles he was a leader. He was very good at them too. If only his philosophy’s were different.
Were did his underlining hatred of people of Jewish heritage stem from?
I tend to vote right of center, but I have to say that in terms of American, shall we say, jingoistic political discussions I think the American** left-wing** uses “Nazi” as a political epithet much more so than the right. Again, in a very superficial, shallow way, they equate right-wing conservatism with being racist, conformist, pro-military, anti-intellectual etc. and may continue down that path equating it to Nazi-extremism. Hard core conservatives might call Obama a communist, but hard core liberals will call Rush Limbaugh a Nazi.
Left, right or center using the term ‘Nazi’ in (American) politics is like using the term nigger in race, it’s just a hateful insult with little to no connection to history. Those who sink to using it should remember that the only ones you’re really insulting are the tens of millions of people who suffered under the *actual *Nazis…
I see a lot less of that these days, I guess because the far left wing looks at Obama failing to do everything in their litany of foreign and civil libertarian policy wants, and conclude that he isn’t too much better than the previous administration. I don’t agree with them on that, but a lot of the GOP = Nazi talk died down a few months after Obama came in.
Whereas Democrats = Nazis wasn’t nearly as prevalent, but reaches the heights of convolution and absurdity.
To establish a government monopoly on unions and communist government didn’t allow rival trade unions to exist either-just look at Solidarity.
That said Nazis both had full socialists (like Strasser and Rohm) and Hitler wasn’t particularly leftish because he needed the support of industrialists to make war material for him and the old officer class to help build up a German army. When Hitler was about to kill himself, he did regret not being more ruthless against the business class in his final testament.
But the Soviet Union, on paper, was formed from workers unions that then came together and created a government - it’s literally what a soviet union is. So the basis of the Soviet government was that the government came from and was controlled by the workers.
There may have been some socialist rhetoric in the early days but Hitler had Rohm and the Strassers killed. Same thing with what Hitler may have written in his final days in the bunker - it didn’t reflect what he actually did when he was in power.
My point is that you have to judge the Nazis by what they did not by what they said. While they may have sometimes made socialist talk, they didn’t act like socialists.
I think what it comes down to is what I said before: right wing Americans want to define the Nazis as “socialist” so as to disparage anyone to the left of themselves, and to deflect attention from the very real fact that the Nazis were, by any fact-based definition, right wing.
Now, you can get together with a bunch of your pals and decide that red and blue are the exact same colours, and you can maybe even get yourself elected to something and enact a local law that legally defines red and blue as being the same thing. But the fact remains that everyone else in the entire world defines those words as being entirely different things.
You go around arguing that the sky is red and everyone will dismiss you as stupid and/or crazy. You can argue your definition of the words till you’re blue (or red, since they’re the same colour) in the face, but you’re not going to change the fact that the entire rest of the world defines those words in a different way.
OK, by the definition of a far-right fringe group, the Nazis were socialists. By the definition of the entire rest of the world the Nazis were a far-right party.
I think the point is that some right wing people want to hold to the simple faith that the right is always 100% right and the left is always 100% wrong. And the Nazis call that simple faith into question by being an example of a right wing movement that was undeniably wrong. So to defend their beliefs, they just move the Nazis into the left column.
Agreed. My point was to make it clear that the US is the only place on Earth where that wouldn’t be instantly laughed off the agenda. And I’m not disparaging Americans in general, the majority of whom do understand and acknowledge the differing meanings of the words in question.
He didn’t do a very good job of it. Otto Strasser died in 1974 
I’m sure that Mao and Stalin would have been glad to know that they were not true socialists, since they, too, outlawed all trade unions.
If this a standard of what constitutes a True Scotsman it’s worthless, since the most notorious and self-proclaimed socialists in world history all fail to meet your standard.