# Nationalism and the casting of Asian actors/actresses in movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638 "2007-04-11T14:13:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/21 "2007-04-12T17:39:27Z")
[QUOTE=AudreyK] It makes me think of visiting my friend’s Chinese restaurant in Minnesota a couple years ago and hearing they served cream cheese wontons. [/QUOTE] While you were in Minnesota did you see any other foods that surprised you because they contained milk products? Dairy’s big back in the Old Country and I was raised to put cheese and/or butter on or in pretty much everything. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/22 "2007-04-12T18:31:17Z")
My favorite little hole-in-the-wall restaurant is a Korean place. They serve all the basic Korean dishes, including gimbap, the Korean equivalent of sushi. One interesting choice is cheese gimbap. Yes, cheese sushi! It sounds weird, but isn’t that bad. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/23 "2007-04-12T18:48:44Z")
Hey, at least they’re using Asians to play Asians now! In the 1956 film of the musical [The King and I](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049408/) , the young Siamese lovers were played by Carlos Rivas and Rita Moreno! ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/24 "2007-04-12T20:26:57Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] While you were in Minnesota did you see any other foods that surprised you because they contained milk products? Dairy’s big back in the Old Country and I was raised to put cheese and/or butter on or in pretty much everything. [/QUOTE] Not really, although I was impressed by the deep-fried cheese. Deep-fried cheese! Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had fried mozzarella sticks and they’re very tasty. But this was an appetizer and it was a mountain of neon orange cheesy grease on a platter. I’m lactose-intolerant, and I swear my intestines ripped themselves from my body and ran away screaming. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/25 "2007-04-13T00:03:11Z")
[QUOTE=Mtgman] Cream cheese wontons? Where’s the “yuk” smilie? [/QUOTE] They seem to be super common at potlucks. I think they’re pretty good. I’m pure Japanese (supposedly, I think I’m gonna get a National Geographic DNA test as I cannot possibly be related to those people who claim to be my parents). But, I grew up in a fairly white/hispanic community and I have an extremely difficult time telling the difference between Asian nationalities. Keep in mind, there is a difference between nationality and ethnicity, and obviously there are a lot of ethnic Chinese running around in southeast Asia (Viet Nam in particular) who tend to screw up the demographics. I’m more than happy to venture a guess but I’d have little confidence in my call. Certainly complexion, height and facial features will influence my decision. A much greater influence will be any sociological phenomena and non-American accent. I can usually spot Japanese tourists a mile away, but I’m familiar with the sound of Japanese. I’ve been through most asian countries except for Korea, Mongolia and the Phillipines, but I have a hard time telling Chinese, Japanese and Korean people apart, and most southeast Asians look pretty damn similar to me. Indians of course look entirely different. However, people growing up in these cultures seem to have a much better ability to identify ethnic differences. Hell, I thought Gong Li in Miami Vice was Hispanic. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/26 "2007-04-13T04:21:26Z")
The way I can tell Korean/Japanese/Chinese people apart is not so much by their faces but mostly how they dress. Chinese and Japanese people are easy to tell apart because Japanese people tend to be more experimental when it comes to fashion; as for Koreans, I can usually spot them right away. There are certain styles and brand names that are like carrying around an “I am a Korean” sign painted in red. (It helps that I’ve attended middle/high school and undergrad in Seoul.) Asian Americans, of course, are more difficult, since by 2nd generation they’ve pretty much assimilated to American culture. By the same token, I could usually tell the Korean Americans apart from the rest of the crowd when I was in Seoul. As for nationalism in movies… I remember hearing that the Korean actress Kim Yunjin turned down a part in _Memoirs of a Geisha_, saying that as a Korean she felt it would be wrong to play a Japanese geisha, and the Korean actor Cha Yimpyo turned down the North Korean villain role in _Die Another Day_. Both of them do a lot of work in Korea, so it would have been very deterimental to their careers if they had accepted. Koreans still get easily riled when it comes to these issues. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/27 "2007-04-13T14:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] I think so long as an actor can pass, nationality is not considered very important. This kind of casting happens all the time for Western actors also. Anthony Quinn, who I believe is Mexican, got cast as a Greek. Italians often got cast as Puerto Ricans, and Sal Mineo got cast as an Israeli. Of course it can be done very badly - see Mickey Rooney in _Breakfast at Tiffany’s_. :eek: [/QUOTE] Anthony Quinn’s father was Irish & his mother was Mexican. Mexican can be a mixture of Spanish (Basque, Celtiberian, Roman, Visigoth, Jewish & Moorish), any of the quite distinctive “native” peoples & numerous African slaves brought over by colonists. [As for Irish…](http://www.lilliputpress.ie/listbook.html?oid=2733139) > [@](#): > > Irish identity is best understood from a maritime perspective. For eight millennia the island has been a haven for explorers, settlers, colonists, navigators, pirates and traders, absorbing goods and peoples from all points of the compass. The reduction of the islanders to the exclusive category ‘Celtic’ has persisted for three hundred years, and is here rejected as impossibly narrow. No classical author ever described Ireland’s inhabitants as ‘Celts’, and neither did the Irish so describe themselves until recent times. > > The islanders’ sea-girt culture has been crucially shaped by Middle Eastern as well as by European civilizations, by an Islamic heritage as well as a Christian one. The Irish language itself has antique roots extended over thousands of years’ trading up and down the Atlantic seaways . Anthony Quinn was “genetically equipped” to play just about anything. And he had a large enough spirit to try. As for distinguishing the Asian ethnicities, I’m only a beginner. But I can definitely state that young Vietnamese-Americans are the sharpest dressers of all. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/28 "2007-04-14T06:34:52Z")
I think the linked website is much more about american youth culter than differentiating asian americans. i’m pretty good at differentiating asians in asia, but much less so in america where the cultural clues have been largely whitewasked. I can differentiate taiwanese, cantonese, shanghaiese, and northern chinese at a much higher than random rate by sight. of course if different asians speak it’s much easier to tell. I think for casting actors/actresses that there is a significant loss of realism. maybe the actor can overcome it. but the looks, mannerisms, cultural reads, accent, etc are ‘off’ to varying degrees. no different from jack nicholsen trying to sound and act like he’s from brooklyn or wherever in as good as it gets. most natives say he doesn’t capture it. or using puruvians instead of tibetans makes 7 years in tibet unwatchable because I lived a year in tibet. gong li a peasant girl from china trying to act like a culturally skilled japanese courtesan probably will have a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/29 "2007-04-14T07:40:44Z")
I love how people get riled about Chinese actors and actresses in “Memoirs of a Geisha” when it was written by this guy [Arthur Golden - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Golden) an American. I get the idea though. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/30 "2007-04-14T13:23:41Z")
Korea was a colony of Japan at the time, and had been for decades. A good percentage of Japanese soldiers \*were \* Korean. ---
**Author:** ![Lush\_Puppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Lush\_Puppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lush_Puppy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/31 "2007-04-15T09:56:42Z")
I can generally tell the difference between Chinese, Korean and Japanese. However, not so with the Malay races (Filipino, Indonesian, Malaysian, etc). Singapore is generally Chinese (at least I think so) and I can’t tell them apart from Chinese of the more modernized cities (Shanghai, etc). I’m Asian, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/32 "2007-04-15T10:06:16Z")
My wife is Thai, but ethnic Chinese. Here in Thailand she’s been mistaken for Japanese and Filipina, but only when she’s with me; for some odd reason, other Thais sometimes don’t think she could be Thai if she’s with me. When we were living in Hawaii and visited the mainland, people thought she was Hawaiian when they heard where we lived. And in the Southwest, she was mistaken for Native American at least a couple of times. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/33 "2007-04-15T22:26:06Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] My wife is Thai, but ethnic Chinese. Here in Thailand she’s been mistaken for Japanese and Filipina, but only when she’s with me; for some odd reason, other Thais sometimes don’t think she could be Thai if she’s with me. When we were living in Hawaii and visited the mainland, people thought she was Hawaiian when they heard where we lived. And in the Southwest, she was mistaken for Native American at least a couple of times. [/QUOTE] That is probably because she is ‘Americanized’ - people judge by mannerisms, general confidence, who they relate to easily, far more than skin colour and facial features. Your wife looks and behaves like a ‘boss girl’ so they promote her mentally Sounds good to me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/34 "2007-04-15T22:54:37Z")
Last year, the American missionary assigned to my ward in South Korea was Navajo\*. Until he started speaking, almost everyone he encountered considered him Korean. \*_Navajo_ and its variant spelling _Navaho_ are perfectly fine words in the Navajo language used by the Navajo to describe themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/35 "2007-04-16T01:21:29Z")
My friend Chris (Caucasian) would use his expected ignorance to fool his Thai-born & raised girlfriend into letting him look at other women. “Honey, is she Thai?”, he would innocently ask about a pretty girl walking by, therefore having a ‘good reason’ to fully look her up and down w/o getting his eyes torn out. (Girlfriend was crazy jealous, but even more enthusiastic about her nationality.) “No, she’s Hmong/Chinese/Korean/etc.”, would come the reply. ---
**Author:** ![Gentle\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gentle\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gentle_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/36 "2007-04-16T02:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=Critical1] I love how people get riled about Chinese actors and actresses in “Memoirs of a Geisha” when it was written by this guy [Arthur Golden - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Golden) an American. I get the idea though. [/QUOTE] I still don’t. The last Batman flick starred a Welshman, and I don’t think most people even _noticed_. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/37 "2007-04-16T03:00:42Z")
[QUOTE=Burrido] I can generally tell. I’m also Asian so that helps a lot. I also live an area where there is a large percentage of SE asians. As far as I can tell, every asian race has a general “look”. Chinese - round faces, most slanted eyes, and higher cheekbones. I can really tell if they smile/squint. Japanese - Plainer faces. Noses are more “western”. Eyes are not as slantly. Thin faces and small chins. Koreans - Simular to Chinese, but their cheekbones are wider. Can have a wide chin as well. [/QUOTE] This weirds me out. I’m just a midwestern guy from a place with few Chinese/Japanese/Koreans (though a fair minority of Vietnamese), but to me, Japanese & Korean features have far more divergence between individuals than between nations (if indeed there is any, I don’t think I’ve seen any), & Chinese–even sticking to ethnic Chinese–are strikingly diverse (& sometimes have pale skin, freckles, & a shape of face that reminds me of my “white” relatives). On the other hand, I had an idea of what “Vietnamese” looked like until I met a girl with a blatantly Vietnamese name whose skin was not the light yellowish tone I was used to but a cinnamon tone. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/38 "2007-04-16T03:40:20Z")
“It makes me nervous when people say, ‘I just can’t tell you Asians apart! _giggle_’ …Why do you have to tell us apart? Are we going to be separated for some reason? _I_ can’t tell us apart! I was not born with a microchip embedded in my neck that would enable me to identify every Asiatic person I would come across! ‘_beebeebeebeep_ _Filipino._’” - Margaret Cho ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/39 "2007-04-16T05:47:46Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] That is probably because she is ‘Americanized’. Your wife looks and behaves like a ‘boss girl’ so they promote her mentally Sounds good to me. [/QUOTE] Oh, so you know how my wife behaves, do you? How presumptuous. My wife is NOT “Americanized.” She never set foot in the US until she was 28 and that was for a conference. It was not until she was in her 30s that she traveled to Hawaii for a second master’s degree, and so only lived there for 2 1/2 years. Far from coming from a privileged family, she went through the normal government school system here and even had to work as a janitor cleaning offices at night to help out. I can tell you her behavior and mannerisms are not untypical for a Thai lady. If you really knew my wife, you’d know how ridiculous anyone sounds calling her “bossy.” My own theory about why some Thais assume she must be Japanese, Filipina, etc, is because we are both well into middle age, and since I, as a farang (Westerner), do not have an 18-year-old cutie on my arm, picked up in some bar, then she must not be Thai. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638/40 "2007-04-16T06:37:59Z")
I’m curious too, now that I think about it, why you would think my wife comes across as “Americanized” when I said her fellow Thais sometimes think she’s Filipina or Japanese. Must be those famously “bossy” Japanese ladies, eh? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nationalism-and-the-casting-of-asian-actors-actresses-in-movies/399638.md?page=3)