# Native American Horse Breaking/Training Techniques **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788 "2010-03-09T01:07:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/1 "2010-03-09T01:07:26Z")
Now that I own horses I am curious how other cultures have domesticated and trained horses throughout history. As I understand it, many Native American tribes, particularly those of the Southwest US, were introduced to horses by the Spanish. I assume that these tribes learned how to train and ride them from the Spanish themselves. But other tribes, for example tribes of the northern plains, didn’t have much contact with the Spanish, although they likely had contact with tribes that were familiar with the Spanish and their horses. Is there any written record of how these northern tribes broke and trained “wild” horses? (I realize that these horses weren’t wild but were in fact offspring of the horses that the Spanish brought and left behind). If they were following Spanish methods then why didn’t they adopt the saddle? My guess is that they taught themselves how to catch, break and domesticate horses so that they could be used for transportation and warfare. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/2 "2010-03-09T17:23:05Z")
Okay, not a full answer to the question itself, but: please, please don’t **break** your horses! It’s completly unneccessary cruelty. Get yourself a book or a video from [Monty Roberts](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Roberts) - the real horse whisperer, though that’s a wrong name - and read about his [Join-Up method](http://www.montyroberts.com/ju_about.html). Basically, you use the natural body language of horses (Roberts calls it “Equus”) and their desire to join a herd to become the alpha female leader which the horse will trust to protect and willingly work with and cooperate. In his first book, when Monty Roberts tells about his trips into the wilderness to catch wild horses and spending his time watching them in their natural habitat, he mentions as an aside that he heard that the Native Americans used to catch horses with a special method: they would drive the horses before them for several days into a restricted area - a flat top with a cliff or a cul-de-sac. Then, after several days of chase, they would stop and turn around; and though it sounds paradoxically on the surface, the horses would turn around and follow the Indians back. Monty explains that this sounds like a basic Join-up, and helped him convince that, if this idea had been used successfully, then his idea about body language wasn’t complelty crazy. Now, to your real question: > [@](#): > > Is there any written record of how these northern tribes broke and trained “wild” horses? (I realize that these horses weren’t wild but were in fact offspring of the horses that the Spanish brought and left behind). If they were following Spanish methods then why didn’t they adopt the saddle? My guess is that they taught themselves how to catch, break and domesticate horses so that they could be used for transportation and warfare. IANAAnthropologist, but generally there’s very little record about anything of Native American culture left, since the Indians themselves had an oral tradition, and since the missionaries and offical white men were too busy killing or adopting the Indians into the white way of life to keep records. By the time the offical stance changed, in the late 1970s (due to AIM), most keepers of old knowledge were already dead. However, prairie Indians had used specially-bred dogs as animals long before the Spanish arrived - that’s why they called horses “big dogs” at first. As for being introduced by the Spanish: the Prairie Indians didn’t have direct contact with the Spanish like the Southwest tribes. Rather, the horses escaped the Spanish, turned wild in the prairies, and the Indians caught them (at least, that’s how I always read about it). Later, they went on specific raids against the Spanish, but that was after horse culture had developed, and stealing horses had become a way to gain riches and show your courage and cleverness. The german wiki says > [@](#): > > Nachdem die Spanier auf ihren Expeditionen in Nordamerika ein paar Pferde zurückgelassen hatten, verwilderten diese und fanden in der Prärie einen idealen Lebensraum, wurden von den Indianern zu Nutztieren gemacht und machten deren Lebensstil erheblich komfortabler > _After the Spanish left some horses on their expeditions in North America, those turned wild and found an ideal living space in the prairies. The Indians turned them into usable animals and they (the horses) greatly changed their (the Indians) lifestyle._ (translation by me) [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plains_Indians#Hunting_in_the_Plains)as the quickest english source says > [@](#): > > **The Spanish brought horses to America, but were reluctant to trade them to Plains Indians or to teach equestrian skills**. As a result few Plains Indians were able to acquire and use horses until the Pueblo Revolt of 1680 when the Spanish were temporarily forced to abandon New Mexico, leaving many horses. The Pueblo Indians, who had some equestrian knowledge, traded many of these horses to other tribes, resulting in a rapid and wide distribution of horses and equestrian skills.[2] (bolding mine) To me, that adequatly explains the lack of stirrup - the Spanish didn’t want them to have advantages. As for saddles, from what I know the Indians did make saddles from bones and fur or simply woven blankets. They also are said to use ropes around the body of the horse to drop to one side, using the horse as shield, and still shoot their bows. They are said to have been superb riders, better than any cavalry at that time. Maybe a stirrup would have been a hindrance to that level of artistic riding. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/3 "2010-03-09T17:33:22Z")
To give a real source: From this [PDF file](http://www.pps.k12.or.us/depts-c/mc-me/be-ai-sc.pdf) Page 19 > [@](#): > > Dogs served many Great Plains tribes of North America as beasts of burden before the reintroduction of horses to the Americas. They were commonly hitched to what came to be called (by the French) a travois, which was two poles lashed together in an elongated X or V shape, with a platform for cargo on the longer, trailing part of the X and the short, forward part serving to anchor a girdle around the dog’s midsection. > The dog would follow its mistress as she walked with her band to new hunting and camping areas. Its load was mostly supported on the butt ends of the travois which scraped along on the ground. The travois technique was adapted to horses after they became available, and the similarity of function may have prompted at least one people, the Lakota (‘Sioux’), to give the horse a name, unka wakan, which means ‘holy dog’.45 About the horses themselves (Page 22-23) > [@](#): > > The return of the horse (of course, of course) quickly revolutionized the traditional ways of life and transport in many parts of North and South America. In turn, some tribes became not only expert users of horses but also became renowned as horse breeders. The Palouse and Nimipu (‘Nez Percé’) of the Plateau country, for example, created the beautiful and strong Appaloosa breed from Arabian stocks traded and captured from the Shoshone. Their neighbors the Cayuse developed a breed of fast, tough ponies that bear the tribal name.55 > Many tribes in the grasslands of Venezuela, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile similarly became expert horse riders and breeders, giving rise to the gaucho culture (mentioned further below in the discussion on beef ranching). Similarly, some tribes and numerous Indian individuals in Mexico participated in the development of the vaquero techniques and traditions which influenced the later Anglo-American cowboy culture. > These Indians learned the techniques of selective breeding and applied them to maintaining the quality of Eastern Hemisphere breeds of horses as well as to adapting Eurasian stocks to American conditions and needs. As horse culture spread throughout the Americas in the 17th and 18th centuries, the knowledge of stock breeding and management similarly was passed from tribe to tribe and between assimilated Indians and those still independent. Nothing about horse training techniques, though. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/4 "2010-03-09T18:00:44Z")
I am not a horse expert but my daughter is pretty into it. As such I’ve gained some knowledge by skimming some of her books. No cite but I clearly remember reading that, while they may have been excellent riders, they had no special attachment to their horses and viewed them more as tools to be used hard and then thrown away when not performing optimally. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/5 "2010-03-10T02:46:11Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > I am not a horse expert but my daughter is pretty into it. As such I’ve gained some knowledge by skimming some of her books. No cite but I clearly remember reading that, while they may have been excellent riders, they had no special attachment to their horses and viewed them more as tools to be used hard and then thrown away when not performing optimally. Many moons ago I had a book that described a Native American method for backing a horse (meaning, the first time you climb on their back) by standing the horse in knee deep water. If the horse bugs out, he’ll get tired quickly thrashing in the water and see the wisdom in standing calmly. As a side benefit, if you get bucked off, the water will cushion the fall a bit. But mostly the “make the right thing to do the easy thing to do” philosophy. Monty Roberts is 2 cents worth of sense in a $200 package. “Breaking” is just a term for early training it doesn’t mean throwing a horse to the ground or beating it till it submits or “breaking its spirit”. It means training the horse from the point where it is running with the herd to the point where it can carry a rider and bridle, saddle, pull a cart, etc if desired. ideally, such training begins at birth or at a young age, with the foal being handled by people and learning how to be lead with a rope. Maybe some people think better terms could be used, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/6 "2010-06-21T00:24:04Z")
Great information and it makes a lot of sense. Thanks everyone. BTW, my two horse were ‘broken’ long ago. One of them had a successful career as a cutting horse while the other was trained to be a trail horse. If they hadn’t been broken then I wouldn’t be able to ride them, 🙂 although I am aware of a variety of ways to break a horse, some apparently more humane than others. FWIW I don’t think my horses were ever abused… but I suppose you never really know what happened before they became yours. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/7 "2010-06-21T07:28:42Z")
I’m more ignorant than a one-eyed hornytoad when it comes to these things, but I felt compelled to acknowledge the scholarship that went into this thread. Personally I love horses and think they are among the most majestic of this world’s creatures. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/8 "2010-06-21T07:58:53Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > I’m more ignorant than a one-eyed hornytoad when it comes to these things, but I felt compelled to acknowledge the scholarship that went into this thread. Personally I love horses and think they are among the most majestic of this world’s creatures. only until it comes to mucking out stables… ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/9 "2010-06-21T14:40:04Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > only until it comes to mucking out stables… I even miss that. ☹ Horse-less since 1986. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/10 "2010-06-21T23:06:33Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > generally there’s very little record about anything of Native American culture left… Seriously??? How about [Francis Parkman](http://www.amazon.com/Francis-Parkman-Conspiracy-Pontiac-Library/dp/0940450542)? Or [Edward S. Curtis](http://curtis.library.northwestern.edu/)? (To name just two.) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/11 "2010-06-22T11:15:02Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > If they were following Spanish methods then why didn’t they adopt the saddle? A saddle requires a supply of leather (heavy cowhide leather, not deerskin). Which means raising herds of cattle. Plains indians didn’t have cattle to supply the leather to make a saddle. So they substituted with a riding pad. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/12 "2010-06-22T11:39:33Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > A saddle requires a supply of leather (heavy cowhide leather, not deerskin). Which means raising herds of cattle. Plains indians didn’t have cattle to supply the leather to make a saddle. So they substituted with a riding pad. they had enough leather from the buffalo to make clothing, shoes, containers and tents … I am sure they could have squeezed in a few saddles if they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/13 "2010-06-22T12:44:30Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > they had enough leather from the buffalo to make clothing, shoes, containers and tents … I am sure they could have squeezed in a few saddles if they wanted. I was once told by a leathermaker that buffalo was not very suitable for saddles – rather hard, uncomfortable, and too ‘grippy’. And I think that would be especially true given Native American tanning methods. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/14 "2010-06-22T13:50:32Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I was once told by a leathermaker that buffalo was not very suitable for saddles – rather hard, uncomfortable, and too ‘grippy’. And I think that would be especially true given Native American tanning methods. Grippy is not exactly a bad thing when you haven’t invented stirrups yet. Buffalo is used in saddlemaking even today, and is considered desirable in some disciplines. This website has some information about Native American saddlery techniques. From the exhibit “Song for the Horse People” now at the National Museum of the American Indian. > **[Saddle Blankets & Saddles | A Song for the Horse Nation - October 29,...](https://americanindian.si.edu/exhibitions/horsenation/saddles.html)** > > A Song for the Horse Nation presents the epic story of the horse's influence on American Indian tribes from the 1600s to the present. Drawing upon a treasure-trove of stunning historical objects-including ledger drawings, hoof ornaments, beaded bags,... ---
**Author:** ![BaneSidhe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BaneSidhe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaneSidhe)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-horse-breaking-training-techniques/531788/15 "2010-06-23T04:02:56Z")
I rode in a cutback saddle when I rode saddle seat that had a buffalo seat and panels and let me tell you, it was a LIFESAVER when my horse decided he wasn’t going to be a nice horse and trot round the ring like a gentleman but turn into a fire breathing, man eating demon thing.