# Native American intertribal warfare **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 15, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592 "2010-03-15T22:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/41 "2010-03-17T20:25:19Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > While the Sioux migration to the Great Plains was to some degree attributable to displacement many, possibly most, moved voluntarily as the introduction of the horse made it easier to make a living upon the plains. And of course in so doing they stole the land from the people already living there. Tho I’ve read a bit on the subject, I’ve retained little. But my impression is that in the northeast and midwest there were continuing waves of displacement over a relatively short period say from 1600-1800. I recall reading about the Blackhawk War in Illinois in the early 1800s, in which the Sauk, Fox, and Kickapoo took a temprary break from fighting amongst themselves, to unite against the US. But those tribes had moved into Illinois only 50-70 years earlier, from lands to the east. ISTR that the areas around the Great Lakes experienced massive and repeated waves of relocations. I’m not suggesting for a moment that pre-Columbian America was some peaceful commune. Just observing how much it struck me that after 1600 very few tribes held any specific territory for even a century. Similar to the way so much of American history is compressed. Everyone thinks about the pony express which lasted - what - a couple of years? And the heyday of the cowboy cattle drives was maybe 2 decades. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/42 "2010-03-17T20:44:24Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Did you say “Utes?” I can never hear or read anything about the tribe without hearing that voice asking that question. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/43 "2010-03-17T20:50:58Z")
The Utes had to be a nasty bunch, in order to defend the spring which gave them their longevity. Its fame had spread even to what is now Florida by the time Ponce de Leon arrived there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/44 "2010-03-17T20:51:08Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m not suggesting for a moment that pre-Columbian America was some peaceful commune. Just observing how much it struck me that after 1600 very few tribes held any specific territory for even a century. > > Similar to the way so much of American history is compressed. Everyone thinks about the pony express which lasted - what - a couple of years? And the heyday of the cowboy cattle drives was maybe 2 decades. Something interesting about ‘limited time frame’ is that Plains Indians were commonly acknowledged as some of the best horsemen on the planet- especially considering they rode bareback- and yet horses were completely unknown to their culture until, at earliest, the late 16th century and usually later. A book I once read (though I cannot recall its name) gave a first hand account of Indians on a reservation being ‘treated’ to a circus ca. 1900. The animals came out- elephants and tigers and the like- and they were generally uninterested except in some that resembled animals they had seen (then they just expressed “I saw a cat like that once” type stuff). They thought the jugglers and trapeze artists were entertaining but no big whoop. Only two things really impressed them: The first was the stunt riders. Several were extremely enthusiastic and said (through translators usually) “I had no idea there were white men who could ride like that”. The other, which really surprised the observer, was the clowns. People rarely think of “sense of humor” and “American Indians” in the same sentence, but when the clowns came out- by this account- several of the men who had not changed expression or cracked a smile were literally breathless and doubled over. They _loved_ to laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Ol\_Gaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Ol\_Gaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ol_Gaffer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/45 "2010-03-17T20:52:14Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > \ > > Similar to the way so much of American history is compressed. Everyone thinks about the pony express which lasted - what - a couple of years? And the heyday of the cowboy cattle drives was maybe 2 decades. Agreed. I’ve always found it ironic that the quintessential image of an American Indian is a warrior from one of the plains tribes _on a horse_. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/46 "2010-03-17T21:06:04Z")
It just boggles my mind that a species could increase and migrate so quickly - from what? - some escapees in Mexico/Central/S. America in the 1500s, to the point that well before 1800 (I’m thinking Lewis & Clark) cultures throughout the Plains had based major portions of their society on them. ---
**Author:** ![Ol\_Gaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Ol\_Gaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ol_Gaffer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/47 "2010-03-17T21:30:52Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > It just boggles my mind that a species could increase and migrate so quickly - from what? - some escapees in Mexico/Central/S. America in the 1500s, to the point that well before 1800 (I’m thinking Lewis & Clark) cultures throughout the Plains had based major portions of their society on them. Yeah, pretty amazing. The horse perfectly filled a technological gap that, prior to it’s introduction, wasn’t even known. Somewhat analogous to the explosion of the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/48 "2010-03-17T21:58:30Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > It just boggles my mind that a species could increase and migrate so quickly - from what? - some escapees in Mexico/Central/S. America in the 1500s, to the point that well before 1800 (I’m thinking Lewis & Clark) cultures throughout the Plains had based major portions of their society on them. Even more so when you consider that, by the time Lewis and Clark got there, the Nez Perce, way the hell up in the northern Rockies, already had established an agriculture of breeding for color and style and had quite a name for themselves as a source for good horses. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/49 "2010-03-17T22:06:25Z")
And the funny thing is, 10,000 years ago North America was full of horses. The Equids evolved here in America, migrated to the old world over the Bering land bridge, and then went extinct in North America at the end of the ice age. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/50 "2010-03-18T00:21:00Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > It just boggles my mind that a species could increase and migrate so quickly - from what? - some escapees in Mexico/Central/S. America in the 1500s, to the point that well before 1800 (I’m thinking Lewis & Clark) cultures throughout the Plains had based major portions of their society on them. One thing you have remember is that they were protected and moved by people, who found them extremely valuable. So the population increase would have been truly exponential, with almost no losses to predators or starvation. Additionally they were able to move along the optimum migration routes aided by human memory. Natural expansion would see the animals only expanding their range when they overpopulated their existing territory, and often being stopped by barriers such as deserts and mountains. People moved them before they were overpopulated, so the exponential growth phase probably continued for over 100 years, and people were bale to lead them across deserts and mountains with ease into new, unexploited territory on the other side. Of course even without human aid animals can expand very quickly. Cats in Australia had occupied literally the entire continent within 80 years of first landing. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592/51 "2010-03-18T02:33:33Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Similar to the way so much of American history is compressed. Everyone thinks about the pony express which lasted - what - a couple of years? Only 18 months, actually. April 1860 to October 1861. It was the Civil War that scotched it. But Wells Fargo coopted the logo for use with its private mail and freight services from 1866-90. Not at all the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-american-intertribal-warfare/532592.md?page=2)