# Native Americans and Alcohol **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 24, 2007, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118 "2007-12-24T11:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/1 "2007-12-24T11:59:45Z")
I can’t find the column, but Cecil once did a piece which indicated that Native Americans _aren’t_ particularly susceptable to the effects of alcohol. [Now, it turns out that at least some of them might have known about the stuff before pale faces showed up.](http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/releases/2007/ferment.html) > [@](#): > > The belief among some archeologists that Europeans introduced alcohol to the Indians of the American Southwest may be faulty. > > Ancient and modern pot sherds collected by New Mexico state archeologist Glenna Dean, in conjunction with analyses by Sandia National Laboratories researcher Ted Borek, open the possibility that food or beverages made from fermenting corn were consumed by native inhabitants centuries before the Spanish arrived. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/2 "2007-12-24T14:50:21Z")
I don’t think Cecil had a full column on it, I think he just covered it in passing: [Designated drunk: Can you get intoxicated without actually drinking alcohol?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/061020.html), note sixth paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/3 "2007-12-24T14:50:55Z")
I don’t remember such a column. I do remember [Designated drunk: Can you get intoxicated without actually drinking alcohol?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/061020.html) which says > [@](#): > > When the liver processes ethanol, the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase first converts it to acetaldehyde. In most people a second enzyme, aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH), quickly converts the acetaldehyde to harmless acetate. But roughly 50 percent of Japanese and other east Asians and **some American Indians** (but practically no Europeans or Africans) have a mutated gene that impairs ALDH activity. In these people, even a modest dose of alcohol, imbibed or endogenous, leads to acetaldehyde buildup and unpleasant symptoms: facial flushing, palpitations, dizziness, nausea, headache, and confusion. As acetaldehyde builds up, some is converted back to ethanol, retarding BAC decline. Eventually various enzymes slowly clear the acetaldehyde and the symptoms dissipate. [bolding added] ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/4 "2007-12-24T14:56:10Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] I don’t think Cecil had a full column on it, I think he just covered it in passing: [Designated drunk: Can you get intoxicated without actually drinking alcohol?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/061020.html), note sixth paragraph. [/QUOTE] It’s in the first book, in it he dispells the myth that Native Americans were immediately given to whooping and firing off rifles the moment a drop of fire water touched their lips. He mentions that early accounts describe them of being “apprecative” of it’s effects and only whooping it up _after_ whitey told them that’s how they were supposed to act. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/5 "2007-12-30T02:06:30Z")
There’s no question that they knew about alcohol and had alcoholic beverages. The Aztecs and other tribes had _pulque_ long before the Europeans showed up. And I started a thread a while back in which I pointed out that you can make perfectly good wine (YMMV) from the native American _labrusca_ grapes. They even carry the yeast in their skins. It is amazing to me that Native Americans didn’t have as widespread a cultivation of wine as Eurasians did. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/6 "2007-12-30T03:03:11Z")
When I lived in New Mexico, I saw there was a reason for the “drunken Indian” stereotype. Of course, that was due more to poverty and other social factors than genetics. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/7 "2007-12-30T04:34:22Z")
One claim I’ve heard, related to what **bibliophage** quoted. The claim is that because many Indians/Asians have that mutation, moderate over-drinking is more unpleasant for them than for other people. Which means that you are less likely to find moderate alcoholics among them, because the effects of constant overindulgence are so unpleasant. Therefore, the alcoholics they do have are more likely to be severe ones, who stay too drunk to care about the extra bad effects. This creates the illusion that they tend towards drunkenness/can’t hold their liquor, since the alcoholics they do have tend to be more visibly worse off. Combine with people under emotional stress and therefore drink more, and people who are looking for excuses to denigrate Indians ( and wouldn’t know an enzyme from a hole in the ground ), and you have the Indians/Asians-are-all-drunkards legend. Or so the theory goes. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-americans-and-alcohol/431118/8 "2007-12-30T06:47:11Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] One claim I’ve heard, related to what **bibliophage** quoted. The claim is that because many Indians/Asians have that mutation, moderate over-drinking is more unpleasant for them than for other people. Which means that you are less likely to find moderate alcoholics among them, because the effects of constant overindulgence are so unpleasant. Therefore, the alcoholics they do have are more likely to be severe ones, who stay too drunk to care about the extra bad effects. This creates the illusion that they tend towards drunkenness/can’t hold their liquor, since the alcoholics they do have tend to be more visibly worse off. Combine with people under emotional stress and therefore drink more, and people who are looking for excuses to denigrate Indians ( and wouldn’t know an enzyme from a hole in the ground ), and you have the Indians/Asians-are-all-drunkards legend. Or so the theory goes. [/QUOTE] I have to say that I rarely drink with Thais, because they generally try to get me totally shit-faced. There really does not seem to be much moderation among the ones who drink; to them, you drink to get drunk, period. And anything wild and crazy you do while drunk is usually tolerated, since you don’t know what you are doing and thus cannot be held responsible. This is why so many Thais DO get so drunk, so they can let off steam and not suffer much in the way of social reprimands, so getting completely blitzed is a socially acceptable way of letting off steam. There are some exceptions, but they are few. Having a quiet drink or two is not really the norm among the locals. This is another reason why there are so many farang (Westerner) alcoholics here, too. No one so much as bats an eyelid at such behavior.)