# Native animals in the Americas **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 12, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395 "2011-08-12T00:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395/21 "2011-08-14T01:25:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Interesting thread. So it was just by the luck of the draw that Europeans had horses, cattle, wolves, and sheep that could be easily domesticated, but the indigenous people of North America were unlucky and had buffalo, bison, llamas, longhorn sheep, etc. that were either very difficult to domesticate or that didn’t work out as a beast of burden? It’s nowhere near that simple. First off, there ate no buffalo in the Americas, so that made it especially hard for the Americans to domesticate them. As already noted, when humans arrived North America was home to numerous animals that were the the same species or closely related to species that were domesticated elsewhere: horses, camels, wolves, reindeer and moose amongst others. It was also home to numerous other species that we have no reason to believe couldn’t have been domesticated: pigs, sheep, elephants, sloths, bison etc. People promptly exterminated most of these species without making any effort to domesticate them. There was an element of “luck” to that, insofar as the animals in Eurasia had evolved alongside hominids are were pre-adapted to deal with human hunting. The native animals in the Americas were easily exterminated. However there was more to it than that. Reindeer were domesticated in Europe and used as both riding and pack animals. The exact same animals exist in North America, in fact they were migrating between the continents along with humans. Elk have been rapidly domesticated in the last 100 years and bison are also well along the path to domestication. So we know that the Americas were home to three excellent domesticable animals pack animals and two that were at least potentially domesticable. Moreover there is no particular reason to believe that many other other animals in the America weren’t just as domesticable as Eurasian species. There is nothing unique about the Americas that makes their species unable to be domesticated. So the shortage of domesticates in the Americas certainly can’t be attributed solely to luck. It appears to have been as much a cultural decision as anything else. While the Americans domesticated numerous species that could be caged, such as turkeys, ducks and cavies, they only seem to have made the move to domesticating free-roaming animals in one fairly isolated locale. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395/22 "2011-08-14T01:36:45Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > There is nothing unique about the Americas that makes their species unable to be domesticated. > > So the shortage of domesticates in the Americas certainly can’t be attributed solely to luck. It appears to have been as much a cultural decision as anything else. While the Americans domesticated numerous species that could be caged, such as turkeys, ducks and cavies, they only seem to have made the move to domesticating free-roaming animals in one fairly isolated locale. Interesting. Which isolated locale? Also, what cultural impediment did the native population have that prevented the domestication of animals? I know just from anecdotal experience, when I start doing hard manual labor, I almost immediately think of a tool or piece of machinery that can make my job easier. It boggles the mind that thousands or hundreds of years ago, these native peoples were hauling heavy boulders, building temples, really ass-kicking manual labor and at some point in time one of the members of the tribe didn’t see that big elk or bison over there and say, “Dammit, I’m going to make THAT thing pull this stone!” ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395/23 "2011-08-14T02:02:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Which isolated locale? The Andes. > [@](#): > > Also, what cultural impediment did the native population have that prevented the domestication of animals? We don’t know. All we know is that the Americans existed alongside provably domesticable species and never domesticated them, the reason for that failure to domesticate has to be at least as much attributable to culture as anything physical. There’s nothing obviously physically different between Finland and Canada, yet Finns domesticated reindeer and Canadians did not. > [@](#): > > I know just from anecdotal experience, when I start doing hard manual labor, I almost immediately think of a tool or piece of machinery that can make my job easier. It boggles the mind that thousands or hundreds of years ago, these native peoples were hauling heavy boulders, building temples, really ass-kicking manual labor and at some point in time one of the members of the tribe didn’t see that big elk or bison over there and say, “Dammit, I’m going to make THAT thing pull this stone!” That’s because you are the product of a culture that has taught you to think that way. It’s very obvious once you’ve seen it done, but not at all obvious if you haven’t. The idea of tying a rock to a wild bison and expecting to live, let alone control where the rock goes, is as ridiculous as the idea of harnessing a whole lot of geese to a basket and flying to the moon. Literally, it is that ridiculous. Neither one is ever going to happen. Most animals have to be domesticated \*before \*they can be used as traction. They don’t get domesticated to be used as traction. The animal already has to be bred for for tractability before you can even think about harnessing it. Elephants are an exception, but nobody who has seen animal traction at work is ever going to think “If I go out and kill a mother elephant with a stone spear, then wrestle the 200 kg baby to the ground, take care of it for 5 years and train it, then I will be able to move this stone”. That is really not a logical leap, even tough that is what is required to obtain working elephants. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395/24 "2011-08-14T02:50:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This is true. The camel family Camelidae originated in North America. Some true camels (genus _Camelus_) migrated to Asia, where they were eventually domesticated. Other members of the family migrated to South America after the formation of the Panamanian land bridge about 3 million years ago, where they gave rise to the wild guanaco and vicuna. Later the guanaco was domesticated and gave rise to the llama and alpaca. Geez, I love the stuff I learn here. Thanks Colibri. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395/25 "2011-08-14T04:15:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I was unaware that the species distinction between Bactrian and dromedary was under debate. > Given that it’s probable the dromedary was domesticated first, and that wild Bactrians still occur, it seems likely that there was a species split, and then two domestication events. [This article](http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/8/241) suggests that the lineages of the dromedary and Bactrian camels split [8 million years ago,](http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/8/241/figure/F5)which is plenty far back enought to indicate species status. They generally are regarded as full species. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395/26 "2011-08-14T04:28:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Jared Diamond writes on that, among other things, in _Guns, Germs, and Steel_, a very popular book among Dopers. I’ve never read it but I hope he credits Jacob Bronowski and his 1973 series [_The Ascent of Man_](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2p9By0qXms). I saw it on PBS as a teenager and it was one of the single greatest influences on my emerging worldview. Later I bought [the companion book](http://www.amazon.com/Ascent-Man-Jacob-Bronowski/dp/0316109339) and this is the pertinent bit from it (yes I still have it) - pg 74 on: > [@](#): > > I have remarked that agriculture was invented at least once again, much later, in America. But the plough and the wheel were not, because they depend on the draught animal. The step beyond simple agriculture in the Middle East was the domestication of draught animals. The failure to make that biological move kept the New World back at the level of the digging stick and the pack; it did not even hit on the potter’s wheel. > > The wheel is found for the first time before 3000 BC in what is now southern Russia. These early finds are solid wooden wheels attached to an older raft or sledge for drawing loads, which thereby is converted into a cart. From then on the wheel and axle becomes the double root from which invention grows. For example, it is turned into an instrument for grinding wheat - and using the forces of nature to do that: the animal forces first, and later the forces of wind and water. The wheel becomes the model for all motions of rotation, a norm of explanation and a heavenly symbol of more than human power in science and art alike. The sun is a wheeled chariot, and the sky itself is a wheel. In modern science natural motion (that is, undisturbed motion) goes in a straight line; but for Greek science, the form of motion that seemed natural (that is, inherent in nature) and in fact perfect was motion in a circle. I suspect Diamond saw that same series. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-animals-in-the-americas/592395.md?page=1)