# Native Spanish words containing W (why does the Spanish alphabet even contain W?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2024, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669 "2024-07-23T08:40:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/1 "2024-07-23T08:40:10Z")
As I understand it, the letter W is vanishingly rare in Spanish - to the extent that all of the articles I could find discussing how it is used, only listed imported English words like waterpolo and whisky. Are there any natively-Spanish words that use this letter? If not, why is it even there? (I would have thought languages don’t generally have spare letters that they keep in storage just in case they want to import a foreign word) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/2 "2024-07-23T11:21:02Z")
According to Wikipedia > [@](#): > > In the 18th century, the letter ⟨k⟩ was used in a few loanwords and also in the word _kalendario_ (following the Latin spelling _Kalendae_); however, the first edition of the _Diccionario de la lengua castellana_ (1780) already spelled _calendario_. The fourth edition of the _Diccionario de la lengua castellana_ (1803) stated that ⟨k⟩ may be in any case replaced by ⟨c⟩ or ⟨qu⟩ and did not give any words beginning with ⟨k⟩, while still including the letter in the alphabet. In the eighth edition of the _Ortografía de la lengua castellana_ (1815), the letter ⟨k⟩ was deleted from the Spanish alphabet. However, the letter was reinstated in the fourth edition of the _Prontuario de ortografía de la lengua castellana_ (1853), and its use in loanwords was reallowed. > > The letter ⟨w⟩ was formerly considered unneeded for writing Spanish. Previous RAE orthographies did not include ⟨w⟩ in the alphabet and restricted its use to foreign proper names and Visigothic names from Spanish history (the use of ⟨w⟩ in Visigothic names stems from the Middle Ages, although at that time ⟨w⟩ was not considered a letter but a ligature of two ⟨v⟩s or ⟨u⟩s). However, in the _Ortografía_ of 1969, RAE included ⟨w⟩ into the Spanish alphabet, allowing its use in loanwords. Which, on the surface of it, means those are not “real” Spanish letters at all in some sense. Loanwords are loanwords of course, whatever letters the Academy “allows” or not, though the use of arbitrary letters from arbitrary alphabets and languages would compromise some principle of having a consistent predictable orthography. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/3 "2024-07-23T12:50:43Z")
It’s weird that the loanwords didn’t get rendered into a spelling form that just works in Spanish (like football became fútbol). Whisky could have just been huisqui or something. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/4 "2024-07-23T12:53:35Z")
The analogous feature in English would be accented letters. Ç, å, ø, etc. aren’t English letters, but you’ll still sometimes see foreign words written with them. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/5 "2024-07-23T13:33:50Z")
Sure, but those letters aren’t included in the English alphabet. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/6 "2024-07-23T13:38:19Z")
It’s all a continuum. If there were enough loanwords that used ç, say, and those words were used often enough, eventually some sources would start saying that it was part of the English alphabet, just like j and w are now part of the alphabet but didn’t used to be, or how thorn (which I don’t feel like looking up how to type) used to be but now isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/7 "2024-07-23T13:43:50Z")
I can only speak for British English, but I don’t think we would. We tend to just ignore the ‘special’ foreign letters and just use something we already have - often more a case of visual similarity than how it sounds - for example jalapeño has pretty much become jalapeno here; pâté has become pate, and so on. Not saying this is right, but it’s what tends to happen. You’ll still find people who haven’t just mashed it into the English alphabet, but I think they are the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/8 "2024-07-23T13:50:43Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > We tend to just ignore the ‘special’ foreign letters and just use something we already have My older daughter, who is fluent in a number of local languages, says that when she and her friends are texting each other in French, German, etc., they don’t bother with the extra marks (umlauts, _l’accent aigu_, etc.). They just type fast and glean the intended word from context. She says she knows how to long-press the letter on the mobile-screen keyboard to get those accented letters, but nobody does it, and it would be seen as weird if someone bothered. Which of course invites speculation about the long-term influence of these practices on the formal written form of the languages, but that’s outside the scope of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/9 "2024-07-23T15:35:45Z")
The vast majority of Spanish words containing W are imported, as you say. And these countries also import whiskey and read William Shakespeare. Some countries such as Mexico or Puerto Rico are influenced by the United States. Countries like Spain by its European neighbours. It’s not like they had unused letters waiting for an opportunity, more that people were exposed anyway to foreign W’s and no one is confused by keeping the same letter, just as you are not confused if I use the words reëlection, café or mañana (there are better examples). There is perhaps an element of sophistication to using these words, maybe a risk of pomposity. Clutching pearls and crying “But these are foreign!” does not mean they are never used or useful. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/10 "2024-07-24T12:24:11Z")
We mostly kept it so we could spell “Walter”… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/11 "2024-07-24T15:18:00Z")
Certainly in English, it tends to transform the pronunciation of the word. Jalapeno (without the ñ) is pronounced by many Brits as ‘jalla-PEE-no’ or ‘jall-AP-uh-no’ (with an initial J sound too), but that goes for words that don’t contain any conspicuously foreign letters - chorizo is often ‘chuh-RITZ-oh’; paella is often ‘pie-ELLA’. To attempt to maintain the original pronunciation will mark you as pretentious in many circles. Oddly, Habanero (which doesn’t have an ñ and never did) is often pronounced ‘hab-a-nyairo’ here. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/12 "2024-07-24T21:28:21Z")
One difference between English and Spanish, which is relevant to this topic, is that in English, while you can make an educated guess, you cannot expect pronunciation and spelling to correspond in a completely predictable way, so foreign letters and accents are the least of your problems. Whereas in Spanish or Finnish it’s a different story, and loanwords would tend to mess up the tidy orthography. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Certainly in English, it tends to transform the pronunciation of the word. Jalapeno (without the ñ) is pronounced by many Brits as ‘jalla-PEE-no’ or ‘jall-AP-uh-no’ (with an initial J sound too), but that goes for words that don’t contain any conspicuously foreign letters - chorizo is often ‘chuh-RITZ-oh’; paella is often ‘pie-ELLA’. To attempt to maintain the original pronunciation will mark you as pretentious in many circles. > > Oddly, Habanero (which doesn’t have an ñ and never did) is often pronounced ‘hab-a-nyairo’ here. Go figure. If these Brits don’t know Spanish, OK, whatever, but if they did know then they would know how to pronounce all those words just by reading them. (I suppose you would also need to know that “h” is silent, etc.) ps I tend to pronounce Los Angeles with an /x/ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/13 "2024-07-24T22:16:32Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I tend to pronounce Los Angeles with an /x/ Like “Loch Angeles”? I like it! (PS. I know what you meant.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/14 "2024-07-24T23:06:50Z")
In theory, yes. In practice it usually goes like this: “What are the red bits?” “Chorizo” “What?” "Chorizo. Spanish sausage. ’ “You mean churritzo?” “Um… I mean chorizo” “It’s pronounced chuh ritz oh” “No it isn’t” “Anyway, I thought you were only supposed to use churritzo in pie ella…” "It’s…no. " ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2024, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/15 "2024-07-25T05:20:11Z")
Well, it _is_ a country that bafflingly says “tack-oh,” so… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2024, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/16 "2024-07-25T06:34:38Z")
It was a coin toss between that and ‘take-oh’ 😁 ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2024, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/17 "2024-07-25T12:53:28Z")
I find it funny that Brits say paasst-uh instead of pahstuh, when you all use the American (or Italian?) pasta A sound for everything else. This would be a lot clearer if I knew how to use those pronunciation symbols… ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/18 "2024-07-25T13:14:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > If not, why is it even there? It’s there just to accommodate gringos like us, and that’s only because we have a lot of tourist money. 😈 ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/19 "2024-07-25T13:52:56Z")
Autocorrect should add the accent marks, at least in French. Idk about German. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669/20 "2024-07-25T17:07:54Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > you all use the American (or Italian?) pasta A sound for everything else This almost certainly isn’t true. pastie, packet, pandemic, parachute, panoply, pancake, pageant, parrot, pastille, pastel, pastoral, passive… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/native-spanish-words-containing-w-why-does-the-spanish-alphabet-even-contain-w/1004669.md?page=2)