# NATO and President Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 2, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-president-trump/770466 "2016-11-02T19:08:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-president-trump/770466/1 "2016-11-02T19:08:46Z")
The USA is entitled to its madness but I doubt very much most of Europe will want to be part of it: Is there any choice for European nations other than to suspend Article 5? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-president-trump/770466/2 "2016-11-02T20:58:29Z")
[Full verbiage of Article 5](http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm) > [@](#): > > The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. > > Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security . Just because the US gets in a war doesn’t mean it’s an attack against us in North America. It’s pretty specific about self-defense which allows more wiggle room if Trump say, invades Mexico as part of collecting on the cost of finishing the border wall. Each party to the alliance gets to pick what support they “deem necessary” once Article 5 is invoked. Appropriate support includes, but doesn’t not require armed force. It’s not a blank check. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-president-trump/770466/3 "2016-11-02T21:06:51Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > The USA is entitled to its madness but I doubt very much most of Europe will want to be part of it: Is there any choice for European nations other than to suspend Article 5? Any choice for what? I would think the answer has to do with which types of “madness” you had in mind? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-president-trump/770466/4 "2016-11-03T07:37:13Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > [Full verbiage of Article 5](http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm) > > Just because the US gets in a war doesn’t mean it’s an attack against us in North America. Yep, what about the retaliation for what Trump may do. Perhaps the point is there isn’t likely to be too much of an appetite in Europe for a nuclear-capable military alliance with a former game show host and demonstrable sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-president-trump/770466/5 "2016-11-03T07:54:04Z")
I’m less worried about Trump actually not keeping our treaty commitments so much as the Russians thinking he might not. Wars are more often started by misunderstanding another nation’s resolve than by saber rattling, especially post-WW2. That’s why North Korea invaded the South and why Saddam invaded Kuwait. They did not count on US intervention because we were vague on that point.