# NATO and Turkey **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091 "2003-02-10T13:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/41 "2003-02-11T06:17:30Z")
Anyone want to bet on whether the US goes ahead and sends Patriot batteries to Turkey? Put me down for “yes, and soon.” I guess this is the second way to get a war with Iraq. Just make enough noise about Turkey and hope Saddam bites. He won’t though, he’s playing the diplomatic card for all it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Berk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c37758/32.png) [@Royal\_Berk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Berk)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/42 "2003-02-11T11:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*I strongly support Germany and Frances efforts to slow the headlong rush to war. Nonetheless, I think they should follow through on their obligations to Turkey. The NATO alliance should be bigger than this. > > It would be entirely honorable, and entirely reasonable, to offer defensive assistance to Turkey. In the unlikely occurance that Iraq attacks Turkey, Germany and France should be there. They can make thier case clear, they can certainly refuse any offensive deployment, and I think they would be right to do so. But they should be available to a friend and ally as a defensive force. \*\* I wanted to post, but **elucidator** has expressed it far better than I could. Up to today, I was ashamed of the pro-War Western countries who believe they should operate without U.N. backing. Today I am also ashamed that other Western nations can veto the provision of defensive measures for another NATO country, for political point scoring. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/43 "2003-02-11T11:51:53Z")
I agree that refusing defensive aid is mainly political. But asking for the aid was political in the first place, a ploy to get them involved. Turkey is hardly in danger of attack. Furthermore it is poised to strike at the Kurds and has already ‘invaded’ Iraq (establishing a ‘buffer zone’ of some 30 kilometers.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/44 "2003-02-11T12:05:09Z")
Very concerned over an interview that I heard this morning on the radio; Congressman Peter King made a series of comments about Germany and France which, apart from being demonstrably factually inaccurate, rapidly spiralled down to petty name-calling (including words to the effect “if the French wish to be involved in the conflict, their input will have to be limited to advise the Iraquis on how to surrender”) - what kind of thinking is going on there? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/45 "2003-02-11T12:55:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\* what kind of thinking is going on there? \*\* Simple: Those who are not with us are against us. They are against us. We are Good, they must be Bad. Let’s find some examples that they are indeed bad. Stick found. Lets’ whack 'm with it. Btw, your username sounds suspisciously french **Mange** You wouldn’t happen to be one of those peacenik, commie, liberal, pink, frenchy, long-haired … ah… shucks… a …a non-republican would you? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/46 "2003-02-11T13:06:32Z")
I will admit to a deep love of cheese and no more… Oh OK; I’m not French, I’m English. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/47 "2003-02-11T13:21:46Z")
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Turkey’s strong desire to join the EU, and the efforts of the EU (dominated by whom, again?) to keep Turkey out. ---
**Author:** ![Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fox_in_the_Snow)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/48 "2003-02-11T14:37:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I am surprised that no one has mentioned Turkey’s strong desire to join the EU, and the efforts of the EU (dominated by whom, again?) to keep Turkey out. Actually [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2544649.stm) suggests France and German are rather keen to see Turkey join the EU. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/49 "2003-02-11T15:36:44Z")
Just to throw something out there…France has invested a whole lotta money in Iraqi oil. Don’t think they want to see it go to pot. (heh…dope, pot). No time to cite source but I’m sure one can be found 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/50 "2003-02-11T15:45:52Z")
Did anyone else notice Turkey’s sudden change of heart about the invasion right after they got told they could occupy northern Iraq (and those luscious oil fields) afterward? Is this an example of leadership or simply bribery? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/51 "2003-02-11T16:14:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by athelas \* > \*\*Just to throw something out there…France has invested a whole lotta money in Iraqi oil. Don’t think they want to see it go to pot. (heh…dope, pot). No time to cite source but I’m sure one can be found 😉 \*\* I’ll think you’ll find that it’s Russia who have invested in Iraqi oil recently. France was a major player in the oil industry in Iraq until the Gulf War and international sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/52 "2003-02-11T17:51:37Z")
**Fox** – thanks for the correction. I hope it proves true. I still think the EU membership/NATO veto is an unexplored avenue either of diplomacy or of analysis. **MC** – Russia’s investment in Iraq may be larger, but France’s investment is huge, growing, and dependent on Iraqi goodwill. > [@](#): > > France is among Iraq’s major trading partners under the U.N.-approved oil program, which permits oil sales worth dlrs 5.2 billion every six months despite the sanctions. French exports to Iraq were estimated at a half-billion dollars during each the past two phases of the program. > > –snip– > > The warning in Babel, the daily newspaper owned by President Saddam Hussein’s eldest son, Odai, singled out French oil giants Elf Aquitaine and Total, which have deals nearing completion for the development of two of the world’s largest oil fields. > > –snip– > > Iraq also ‘‘will put an end to the preferential treatment given to French companies,’’ it said. [Iraq threatens Elf Aquitaine](http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/1999/msg00786.html) Whatever interest the US may have in Iraqi oil, the French and Russian interest is at least as great – and the French and Russian interests depend on Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/53 "2003-02-11T18:03:42Z")
I’ve got a feeling that information may be out of date as Saddam withdrew a contract with TotalFinaElf for oil concessions after French support for sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/54 "2003-02-11T20:29:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Turkey’s borders would be at risk whether or not Turkey helped the U.S. In fact, you could make the claim that Turkey is helping the U.S. because it needs to defend its borders. If Turkey had refused, and the U.S. did not station troops there, then hundreds of thousands could swarm over the Turkish Border and there could be Kurdish uprisings on both sides. And that may happen anyway. > > So Turkey is caught in a tough spot no matter what it does. So it calls out to NATO for help, and France and Germany refuse because they have ulterior motives. Nice allies. Turkey could refuse to attack Irak, and still ask for help to the Nato in case things go to hell anyway. That was their option, they chosed to be the agressor. Changing the subject a bit, Who could have guessed 2 years ago that we would be having a diplomatic “hot war” between Europe and America? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/55 "2003-02-12T13:14:51Z")
No Anti-War for Oil! Heh…sorry ---
**Author:** ![I\_Brian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@I\_Brian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Brian)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091/56 "2003-02-12T13:19:58Z")
I don’t remember seeing an article declaring Turkey eager to launch an attack. As the only Islamic country in NATO, the USA are keen to ensure it is protected. After all, Turkey is being prepared as the bridge for EU (US) Foreign Policy in the Middle East. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-and-turkey/154091.md?page=2)