# Nato Meeting. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432 "2012-05-09T21:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cheryl44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@Cheryl44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheryl44)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/21 "2012-05-21T00:27:22Z")
Well, it seems like it went off pretty well today. I am at work, though not in the Loop nor south of it. It’s quiet around here, other than police stopping in to make sure everything is okay. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/22 "2012-05-21T00:44:15Z")
> [@Cheryl44](#): > > Well, it seems like it went off pretty well today. I am at work, though not in the Loop nor south of it. It’s quiet around here, other than police stopping in to make sure everything is okay. There was a bit of ugliness between 5 and 6ish. I was watching it on the news, where they covered it live and uninterrupted. Much as I support the things many of the protesters are protesting, they really were asking for those conks on the noggin’. They weren’t kettled, they were merely prevented from moving forward and told to go back the other way. They didn’t. Some of the black bloc guys started throwing things, and some protesters got knocked around with batons and arrested. It looked for a bit like they were going to deploy the LRAD or pepper spray (they brought the LRAD in, and at one point about half the officers donned gas masks at once, but then they took them off again), but by the time the news got bored and stopped live coverage around 6:30, they were just dispersing the crowd by walking them back and plucking the violent ones out for arrest. Since the violent ones, by and large, \*want \*to be arrested (for cred, for raising awareness, for satisfying their own sense of paranoia and persecution), I’m not shedding too many tears for them. I just hope none of the (numerically superior) peaceful folks got in the way and got hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/23 "2012-05-21T02:16:29Z")
The general mood of the people I’ve talked to agree with WhyNot completely. Going out of the way to provoke an arrest is just foolish. It should be easy enough to get the FBI to set a person up as a terrorist, if that’s what one really wants. The message to the cops should be that the 1% are forcing you to buy equipment you don’t want or need, and that after the pensions for teachers, nurses and public transit works are gone, your pensions are going to be next. The revolution becomes successful when the police and soldiers join the people in the street. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/24 "2012-05-21T18:25:00Z")
And so it goes. Great news story in the UK Guardian – naturally, not something the Tribune would run – [here](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/20/welcome-nato-chicago-police-state?CMP=twt_fd) Democracy, after all, is something only the Arab nations should have – as long as they agree with the policies of the oil companies. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/25 "2012-05-22T04:30:32Z")
There’s a saying on the south side of Chicago where I’m from; Don’t start nothin’ and there won’t BE nothin’. They came HERE, they wanted to incite violence HERE, they wanted to force the hand of the police to defend themselves and fight back. I live here, I pay taxes here, I work here and I play here. If the cops tell me that an area is locked down, I will go somewhere else. If I stand and fight and demand to be let in to that locked down area, I should well expect to have my ass handed to me and when it does, I won’t go crying to twitter about it. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/26 "2012-05-22T15:12:48Z")
My thoughts, now that it’s all over… I’d be surprised if more than 10% of the “protesters” even _have_ a strong opinion about NATO or its policies. What I saw was a chance for a bunch of hipsters to have a big ol’ party in the streets. I saw people dancing, laughing, and looking like they were having a great time. What was their message? What were they actually protesting? Beats me. Some of them were chanting stuff like “Democracy is a sham!” Um, okay… A few of them seemed more interested in being a disruptive nuisance more than anything else. Some people get off on that kind of thing. But most seemed to just be hanging around because it was the cool thing to do. I think the police, for the most part, handled themselves admirably. I didn’t see anyone’s First Amendment rights being denied. A small handful of protesters decided to cross a line and physically attack the cops, and rightfully got smacked down for it. The First Amendment doesn’t include the right to assault a cop. Police reacted to individuals acting in a violent manner, not to the group in general. Things could have gotten _very_ out of hand if the cops didn’t show the restraint they did. As for the supposed economic benefits to the City, Emanuel never claimed that the conference would create a windfall this weekend. His argument was that Chicago would be shown across the globe to be a world-class city that people would want to visit. While I’m skeptical of this, at least let’s be fair about what the short-term and long-term claims were being made. Overall, I’m glad it’s over, I’m glad nothing terrible happened, and I’m glad the G8 got pulled to Camp David; otherwise this would have gone on twice as long as it did, tensions would have become more and more strained, and we might well have been talking about a different story right now. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/27 "2012-05-22T17:17:02Z")
So that was it? Three antagonistic hippies making noise at the police, but an otherwise non-event? Getting in and out of downtown was a cakewalk, and nothing out of the ordinary happened except the area being completely abandoned, save for the shitload of cops. > [@Uncle\_Goat](#): > > This is becoming increasingly funny – in the most appalling way possible. > > From Crain’s Business: _Workers at some Chicago office towers are being encouraged to dress down to avoid being targeted by protesters during the meeting of world leaders May 20 and 21. Safety procedures in some high-rises include the recommendation that employees set aside suits, ties and anything with corporate logos._ Ridiculous. At least I got to wear jeans to work. > [@WhyNot](#): > > 😃 So I had a Very Special Guest at the Wellness Center today! > > A Doper (whom I shall not name, 'cause I don’t know if he’d want me to) sent me a PM saying that he had room to put up a few protesters in his apartment, with his phone number to call for details. I did, but got his voicemail. > > He came by to visit! And not only that, but he brought us a bunch of local maps, including local maps with restaurants and local maps with stores marked…so very cool. It was Rand Rover, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/28 "2012-05-22T20:19:43Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > It was Rand Rover, wasn’t it? LOL, No, but that would have been AWESOME. I’m assuming he’d rather remain anonymous, since he hasn’t posted to claim his laurels, and I will honor that. There was a bit more violence than the news reports let on…and I missed most of it. But talking with my fellow medics and looking at the condition of the supply closet, there \*was \*a “mass casualty incident” at the Wellness Center Sunday night. A couple dozen people sent to ERs for more care and documentation than our folks could provide, others treated on site who refused further care. A lot of baton whacks to the heads, cuts, bruises, eye jabs, that sort of thing. Some pretty impressive skull lacerations (one more than 8 inches long and down to the skull - ouch!), a couple of gut jabs and possible broken ribs. One broken leg. A couple of unilateral nonreactive pupils (not a good thing from a neurological standpoint.) I patched up a few more that wandered in Monday morning after being released from jail. Still, everyone, protesters included, agreed that it could have been far, far worse. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/29 "2012-05-23T04:45:48Z")
Oh, I don’t mind being named. Mean Old Lady knows me from the meetup last Dec. Sunday night the Wellness Center sent me one of the casualties, a young fellow whose arm had been battered in the Michigan & Cermak clash. He was a polite and pleasant Minnesotan who now was riding the rails and Occupying various cities, but he _ **stank** _ and didn’t seem interested in my suggestions that surely he’d like to take a long hot shower or launder his clothes. And he had a dog with him. She was a seven-month-old black Lab, who was very friendly and well behaved. Except that her owner slept 12 hours and then thought she could wait a few minutes to go out. She couldn’t. So I ended up with both a liquid mess on the tile entryway—not so bad—and a half-hour later a big steaming semisolid mess on the carpet in my study. I feel like I’ve done my part for Chicago hospitality. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/30 "2012-05-23T09:33:51Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Oh, I don’t mind being named. Mean Old Lady knows me from the meetup last Dec. > > Sunday night the Wellness Center sent me one of the casualties, a young fellow whose arm had been battered in the Michigan & Cermak clash. He was a polite and pleasant Minnesotan who now was riding the rails and Occupying various cities, but he _ **stank** _ and didn’t seem interested in my suggestions that surely he’d like to take a long hot shower or launder his clothes. And he had a dog with him. She was a seven-month-old black Lab, who was very friendly and well behaved. Except that her owner slept 12 hours and then thought she could wait a few minutes to go out. She couldn’t. So I ended up with both a liquid mess on the tile entryway—not so bad—and a half-hour later a big steaming semisolid mess on the carpet in my study. I feel like I’ve done my part for Chicago hospitality. Oh, jeez. Yes, I met the duo in question too. Intense young man, very sweet dog. So sorry about the hazardous waste cleanup. :smack: But thanks again for the maps. You have no idea what a hit they were. And thanks to the restaurant map, \*I \*have now discovered Epic Burgers. Which are indeed epic, and I’ll be taking my SO there for lunch one of these days. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/31 "2012-05-26T03:41:46Z")
> [@Uncle\_Goat](#): > > While being skeptical about anything online is a good thing, this is a pointless proposal. Anything found can be disputed. Any “proof” offered can be dismissed, and piling on evidence for a skeptic to smirk at is a waste of time. Take it or leave it as you like. An unsupported declaration is very little to take or leave. I feel absolutely no regret in leaving it or any such declaration. And the way you dismiss skeptics is curiously like that used by phony psychics. > [@](#): > > I certainly do not claim to be expert on anything I know you didn’t, and I didn’t say you had to be. > [@](#): > > and I certainly don’t have the time to back up every remark made here with footnotes, historical background, photos, or links to satisfy some other poster. I didn’t ask for all that. Here’s what I did originally ask for: “do you have a reliable cite that the police have to pay personally for this?” That is, $3k just for new riot equipment. You gave not one reliable cite to support this, only a link to their normal expenses and one source (and anonymous, at that). > [@](#): > > I suppose there are no stories because going to the Tribune to whine about having to shell out money for riot gear would be seen as disloyalty. Who knows? Maybe the police are a closed-mouth group of people who don’t rush to the press every time something they don’t like happens. Maybe cops see each other as belonging to some kind of special brotherhood and they don’t like outsiders snooping in. And yet here are TWO separate articles about the police complaining about NATO overtime compensation (which I’d be willing to bet involves less than $3k or the equivalent per officer): [http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/12590291-418/nato-summit-prompts-police-grievance-by-chicago-cops-over-ot-pay.html](http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/12590291-418/nato-summit-prompts-police-grievance-by-chicago-cops-over-ot-pay.html) [http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-17/news/chi-police-union-files-grievance-about-overtime-pay-20120517\_1\_police-union-files-grievance-nato-summit-overtime](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-17/news/chi-police-union-files-grievance-about-overtime-pay-20120517_1_police-union-files-grievance-nato-summit-overtime) So much for your “maybe’s”. And it took me 5 minutes to Google it. So when I see someone who won’t even do that, I know their opinions are not worth taking seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/32 "2012-05-26T13:02:53Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > And it took me 5 minutes to Google it.. Ah, then you DO you know how to use it! Good for you! I am heartened that you took my advice and did some work on your own. Rewards can be found in the search of self awareness and you are taking the first faulting steps. Hooray! I still can’t find the link showing that anyone cares about any of this, but I’m sure something will pop up soon. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/33 "2012-05-29T22:34:43Z")
It looks like the NATO protests turned out to be much ado about nothing. A few resturants lost business for 1 or 2 days and the museums were closed but businesses either worked from home or from a satallite location. Train, bus and car traffic flowed smoothly. Most Chicagoans found something else to do for the weekend. The protestors had very, very, little local support. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432/34 "2012-05-30T01:52:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The protestors had very, very, little local support. Hmm, wonder why? > [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Sunday night the Wellness Center sent me one of the casualties, a young fellow whose arm had been battered in the Michigan & Cermak clash. He was a polite and pleasant Minnesotan who now was riding the rails and Occupying various cities, but he _ **stank** _ and didn’t seem interested in my suggestions that surely he’d like to take a long hot shower or launder his clothes. And he had a dog with him. She was a seven-month-old black Lab, who was very friendly and well behaved. Except that her owner slept 12 hours and then thought she could wait a few minutes to go out. She couldn’t. So I ended up with both a liquid mess on the tile entryway—not so bad—and a half-hour later a big steaming semisolid mess on the carpet in my study. I feel like I’ve done my part for Chicago hospitality. OK, not wondering any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nato-meeting/621432.md?page=1)