# Natural born citizen & being president **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123 "2006-04-18T04:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/21 "2006-04-18T20:57:57Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > Wow, all my life I’ve heard that embassies are concidered part of the country they represent. I’m not the only one either. For example, I think in the Simpsons episode where they go to Australia, one of the guards says something about the embassy being US soil. > I just looked up embassy on Wikipedia, and it does say embassies have extraterritorial status (never heard of extraterritorial until **Monty** ’s post) which must be where the misconception comes from. > Wow, so many things I take for granted keep turning out to inccorect ☹ Oh well. Speaking of which, what about the country of SMOM? That “country” consists entirely of the inside of a building, which was the embassy for the original SMOM nation that no longer exists. Does the fact that the embassy **isn’t** really the soil of the foreign country mean that SMOM isn’t really a country? ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/22 "2006-04-18T21:27:45Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Speaking of which, what about the country of SMOM? > > That “country” consists entirely of the inside of a building, which was the embassy for the original SMOM nation that no longer exists. Does the fact that the embassy **isn’t** really the soil of the foreign country mean that SMOM isn’t really a country? Although I am not the world’s greatest expert on geography, I have never heard of a country called SMOM. This, in and of itself, does not mean that it doesn’t exist, but if no one else has heard of it, maybe it isn’t a country. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/23 "2006-04-18T21:48:03Z")
[Sovereign Military Order of Malta](http://www.orderofmalta.org/index.asp?idlingua=5). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/24 "2006-04-19T00:47:26Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > Apparently it’s pretty tricky. Caution: Anecdote. > > My partner’s father was a Canadian citizen (I say _was_ because he was naturalized last year) her mother is an American citizen. While ma was pregnant with older brother they were briefly staying in Canada. Brother was born in Canada and given a Canadian birth certificate. A couple of months later they go back to the States. Brother gets his U.S. citizenship right away. > Dad, out of curiousity, checks to see if the brother, having been born in Canada, would prevent him from ever being the Prez. It does, indeed. Brother didn’t get his citizenship right away after moving to the U.S. He was recognized as being a U.S. citizen from birth. Actually, what should’ve happened is that the U.S. parent after the birth of the parent’s child, go to the U.S. embassy or consulate and prepare a “Report of Birth Abroad of a United States Citizen.” The embassy or consulate then issues a Certificate of Citizenship to the newly-born U.S. citizen. You can check the State Department’s website for more information/particulars on that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/25 "2006-04-19T01:52:28Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I note that the language of the Constitution doesn’t mandate that the President be a resident of the United States for the 14 years immediately prior to the election, just that 14 of the 35 years s/he has been alive were spent in the US. If the 14 years were those prior to the inauguration then anyone who had, say, served overseas in wartime (for example, Eisenhower) would be barred from the Presidency. I can’t believe that the Founders intended that. I agree with you. It obviously didn’t keep Hoover out of the White House; I read, however, that it was the subject of some discussion at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/26 "2006-04-19T02:23:08Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > Dad, out of curiousity, checks to see if the brother, having been born in Canada, would prevent him from ever being the Prez. It does, indeed. Your father was misinformed. My children were born and raised in Canada, but are also American citizens by birth. They are most certainly eligible for POTUS, and I fully intend to see that they become the first pair of twins to be POTUS and VPOTUS. Or, on reading the remainder of the thread on preview, what **Monty** sez (presuming that he doesn’t yet have an opinion about my plan for my kids and the Presidency/Vice-Presidency). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/27 "2006-04-19T03:11:43Z")
> [@Elendil's Heir](#): > > The question of what “natural born” means has never been definitively addressed by the Supremes, although IIRC they did mention in dicta in a 1930s case that it meant actually born within U.S. territorial limits. (emphasis added) And even if that were the case, _that_ in turn is itself not defined by the Constitution but by statute – there are _laws_ that say that for purposes of citizenship and immigration, “U.S. soil” includes the 50 states, DC, Puerto Rico, etc. It’s interesting that the Constitution, in its original form, is silent on the nature of citizenship and leaves it completely up to legislation; and that the 14th amendment says citizenship is bestowed on all those “born or naturalized in the United States” but again leaves it to Congress to define by ordinary statute what are the conditions that make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/28 "2006-04-19T03:31:25Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > Or, on reading the remainder of the thread on preview, what **Monty** sez (presuming that he doesn’t yet have an opinion about my plan for my kids and the Presidency/Vice-Presidency). Just be sure that the children are residents of different states at the time they’re running for office. > [@](#): > > 12th Amendment[The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves;](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text_of_Amendment_XII) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/29 "2006-04-19T05:05:33Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Just be sure that the children are residents of different states at the time they’re running for office. Hey, that didn’t stop the current POTUS and VPOTUS from being elected. Wyoming, indeed! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/30 "2006-04-19T05:10:55Z")
Huh? Isn’t the current Veep a Wyoming resident (legally speaking)? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/31 "2006-04-19T07:14:18Z")
Sounds like what a non-US citizen should do is get their country to join the US and then run for President. Easy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/32 "2006-04-19T12:39:57Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > Your father was misinformed. My children were born and raised in Canada, but are also American citizens by birth. They are most certainly eligible for POTUS, and I fully intend to see that they become the first pair of twins to be POTUS and VPOTUS. > > Or, on reading the remainder of the thread on preview, what **Monty** sez (presuming that he doesn’t yet have an opinion about my plan for my kids and the Presidency/Vice-Presidency). Consider my ignorance fought. I will pass this along the family in the event that the boy should ever decide to leave the food co-op business for a life in politics. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/33 "2006-04-19T13:19:37Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Huh? Isn’t the current Veep a Wyoming resident (legally speaking)? Yes, although Cheney had lived in Texas for many years (Dallas, IIRC) while leading Halliburton, had paid taxes in Texas and had been a registered voter in Texas, he hurriedly rediscovered his Wyoming roots when Dubya picked him as his running mate. A lawsuit by a Texas voter based on the aforementioned 12th Amendment issue was thrown out by the court. Some, like me, are not convinced of his putative Wyoming residency in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123/34 "2006-04-19T13:27:56Z")
Well, putative depends on what the Wyoming law is in regards to establishing residency. If he meets the requirements of that law, then he’s a Wyoming resident. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/natural-born-citizen-being-president/353123.md?page=1)