# Nature Documentaries and DEATH. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395 "2010-11-12T05:02:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/61 "2010-11-13T08:51:21Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > But as I just demonstrated, they made all the scenes that dramatic. The scenes of the animals fricken’ \*walking \*were filmed in exactly the same way: close ups, multiple angles, slow notion. The lot. > > Why do you want the death scenes filmed differently to every other aspect of wildebeest behaviour? It sure seems like those scenes were dramatacized far beyond the others, and the goriness maximized. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/62 "2010-11-13T08:52:48Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Even that, though, I think is a bit of anthropomorphizing, as well as the idea that the wildebeest in the OP is somehow grieving for its calf. I’m willing to entertain the idea that maybe chimpanzees have some form of emotion and rudimentary consciousness that we might recognize, but wildebeests, elephants and insects? Nah. You might as well feel sorry for this [lamp](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I07xDdFMdgw). > > (ETA: oops, I forgot to put a warning that the video features some dramatic music and camera angles that might prompt certain posters here to go into bouts of hysterical weeping. Proceed at your own risk!) So you don’t think that most animals feel emotion? How many pets have you had close relationships with? I just don’t get this mindset as it conflicts with all the evidence that I’ve ever seen in my whole life, as well as general logic. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/63 "2010-11-13T09:39:39Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > So you don’t think that most animals feel emotion? How many pets have you had close relationships with? I just don’t get this mindset as it conflicts with all the evidence that I’ve ever seen in my whole life, as well as general logic. No, I don’t. Dogs have evolved and have been selected to become fantastic _mimics_ of emotion, but I don’t believe that’s actually what they’re experiencing. For a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, [this article](http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/99jul/9907dogs.htm) might be of interest. I certainly like dogs, and have had some great pets in the past, but I’m willing to consider that like every other member of the animal kingdom, dogs are driven by the impulse to propigate their genes, and the solution this particular subspecies has settled on is to allow for stunted development and perminent juvenile behavior to elicit our misdirected maternal instincts. > [@](#): > > Biologists, if they weren’t victims of the same blindness that afflicts us all, wouldn’t hesitate to classify dogs as social parasites. This is the class of manipulative creatures exemplified by the cuckoo, which lays its eggs in the nest of some poor unsuspecting dupe of a bird of another species. The befuddled parents see a big mouth crying out for food and stuff it full of worms at the expense of their own offspring. I wouldn’t go so far as the author to say it’s a bad deal for humans: I think the symbiosis between humans and dogs has probably had net benefit for a lot of communities, not only in terms of hunting but also serving humans’ emotional needs. But dogs have been selected genetically for this behavior, to a great extent artificially so. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/64 "2010-11-13T10:20:24Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > It sure seems like those scenes were dramatacized far beyond the others, and the goriness maximized. Perhaps they only seem to have special emphasis because _you_ have an especially strong emotional reaction to such material? Like you’ve got specific subjects that trigger tunnel vision. Obviously unless you have a bizarre phobia of animals walking, you’re not going to note that they’re being shown in a similar dramatic fashion. And yeah, I can understand siding with the mammals, but you have to remember that that was an especially good day for the crocodile. Watch a documentary about crocs and you’ll likely see how much danger and death baby crocs experience, and the strong protective instinct of the mother crocs. And death scenes are dramatic because death IS dramatic to witness. I agree with others who wonder exactly why you feel those scenes sbould not be shown in dramatic fashion. Are we to watch death scenes with a stoic, matter of fact presentation worthy of a sociopath? We acknowledge the dramatic nature of death when we film or watch those scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/65 "2010-11-13T10:21:36Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > It sure seems like those scenes were dramatacized far beyond the others, and the goriness maximized. There is no objective basis for that belief though. The scenes were shot exactly like any other scenes in the episode. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/66 "2010-11-13T10:34:18Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > Perhaps they only seem to have special emphasis because _you_ have an especially strong emotional reaction to such material? Like you’ve got specific subjects that trigger tunnel vision. Obviously unless you have a bizarre phobia of animals walking, you’re not going to note that they’re being shown in a similar dramatic fashion. . I’m willing to concede that might be true. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/67 "2010-11-13T10:37:48Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > No, I don’t. You and I probably don’t have much to talk about, then. I’ve seen plenty of genuine emotions in my cats. Both toward me and toward each other. I don’t see any reason to believe that’s “mimicked” verses real. Why assume it isn’t exactly what it appears to be? You don’t need to answer that–as I said, you and I probably have very little to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/68 "2010-11-13T10:54:50Z")
Gee, I somehow have the suspicion that you’ve filed me away as a Bad Person in your book. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/69 "2010-11-13T11:19:20Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > I’m willing to concede that might be true. And the fact that you failed to remember multiple such instances tends to reinforce the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/70 "2010-11-13T13:35:52Z")
> [@rostfrei](#): > > I was watching (what seemed like) a lighthearted documentary about a family of ducks that lived in a large city. It followed them around for weeks and documented their adaptation to city life, etc. Then, at the end of the documentary, the announcer said, “Sadly, shortly after this was filmed, a freak thunderstorm hit the city and all of the ducks were swept down a storm drain to their deaths”. WTF? Not really sure why, but this gets my vote for the winner winner ducky dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/71 "2010-11-13T14:41:26Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > There is no objective basis for that belief though. The scenes were shot exactly like any other scenes in the episode. I watch a lot of nature documentaries, and I don’t entirely agree with this. I’ve found that in the past few years, there has been a change in the way many nature documentaries deal with the actual moment of impact, if you will, and that this exceeds the amount of time and detail shown on _most_ (not all) aspects of life. It feels vaguely pornographic to me. In part, I think this is due to the availability of super high-speed cameras now; the moment of impact can be slowed down to super-slow-motion so that each instant can be seen in vivid detail. They also do this for things like showing the actual wing motion of birds and insects, for example, but I think they do it more consistently and more lingeringly for predatory interactions. There’s no question in my mind that they do this to up the emotional impact for the viewer, and I’ve found the trend mildly distasteful. I’d rather that time be spent on additional information. When David Attenborough writes it (as oppposed to just doing the narration), it’s usually just about right the right balance. His series _Life of Mammals_ and _Blue Planet_ were just about right (as was his recent program _First Life_), but I found _Planet Earth_, where he only wrote five of eleven episodes, to be a little overly focused on the precise moments of predation. I don’t think anyone could seriously accuse Attenborough of overly romanticizing or "cute"ifying the natural world. He’s clearly fascinated by every aspect of it, but there are no rosy goggles there. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/72 "2010-11-13T14:43:59Z")
You know, I teared up at the wildebeast baby that just couldn’t walk anymore, and it’s mother left it, and the vultures moved in approximately 37 seconds later. It didn’t make me think “the filmmakers are exploiting this creature’s death for the amusement of sickos”. It did make me think “Shit, I’d better go out and buy tampons.” ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/73 "2010-11-13T14:48:56Z")
I’m sure it was very sad, but are we really so easily manipulated that some loud sound effects and sad music will get a reaction? I mean, really? I like to think I’m above it and that I also require some pretty cutting edge dialogue before my emotions are involved. Though considering my reaction to close up shots of dogs with a wide angle lens…maybe not… ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/74 "2010-11-13T18:27:37Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I’m sure it was very sad, but are we really so easily manipulated that some loud sound effects and sad music will get a reaction? Not me, that’s for sure. Hell, these days if I want to get aroused I have to go out and kill the damn animals _myself_. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/75 "2010-11-13T19:29:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > You know, I teared up at the wildebeast baby that just couldn’t walk anymore, and it’s mother left it, and the vultures moved in approximately 37 seconds later. It didn’t make me think “the filmmakers are exploiting this creature’s death for the amusement of sickos”. It did make me think “Shit, I’d better go out and buy tampons.” I’m still giggling at this five minutes later. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/76 "2010-11-13T19:32:42Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > I use my hand to block the gory bits so I don’t have to watch them. I whip out my trusty channel flipper and watch something else. Then i come back after the gore is done. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/77 "2010-11-15T14:48:52Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I whip out my trusty channel flipper and watch something else. Then i come back after the gore is done. But then how else will you be able to describe the scene in detail on the Internet? This OP kind of reminds me of the one about how awful certain books were (the Marquis de Sade among others)–oh, and could we list the titles of some similar books? Just, you know, for research purposes. If watching these scenes was really _that_ upsetting, would you really want to constantly post about how horribly sad and disturbed you were, or would you rather just change the channel and move on? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/78 "2010-11-15T15:00:23Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > Not me, that’s for sure. Hell, these days if I want to get aroused I have to go out and kill the damn animals _myself_. Amusing post/username combo. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/79 "2010-11-15T18:10:36Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But then how else will you be able to describe the scene in detail on the Internet? > > This OP kind of reminds me of the one about how awful certain books were (the Marquis de Sade among others)–oh, and could we list the titles of some similar books? Just, you know, for research purposes. If watching these scenes was really _that_ upsetting, would you really want to constantly post about how horribly sad and disturbed you were, or would you rather just change the channel and move on? But see I really like the rest of the show. And I really wouldn’t mind the circle of life bits if they were over fast and not so zoomed in. You know, so I could just kind of unfocus my eyes for a few seconds and be all set? You have to understand I’m a ginormous softie about animals though. I’ve cried driving past road kill before. I fully admit to being hypersensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395/80 "2010-11-15T20:01:30Z")
Well shit, at least it wasn’t a male deer getting killed. Then the OP would have \*really \*freaked out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nature-documentaries-and-death/560395.md?page=5)