I am confused all the more.
Does the Merchant Marine include ALL such ships, or only some of them?
Is any merchant ship sailing under the US flag subject to being “drafted” into service by the military in time of emergency?
Well, it certainly doesn’t include U.S. Navy warships, which are all operated under the U.S. flag.
I believe it does include most (if not all) civilian-owned merchant vessels that are registered and operated under the U.S. flag, but I’m not sure about this. Per this article, the U.S. government heavily subsidizes merchant vessels to keep them U.S. flagged. There are also U.S. government regulations requiring that U.S.-registered ships be used for at least half of all food-aid shipments, and 100% of military cargoes.
I believe that is the case. And per the article linked to above, this is a big concern regarding U.S.-flagged vessels that are foreign-owned or controlled, especially in this era of large multinational companies that own the majority of the merchant fleet. The U.S. government is concerned that “foreign operators could easily renege on their promise to provide those vessels to the U.S. government for emergency purposes. Denmark, for example, might forbid any ships operated by Danish companies to operate in a war zone, regardless of whether they were part of a U.S. subsidiary. Or Singapore could bar the U.S. from deploying any of its ships in a military action against China.”
The foreign owners, on the other hand, are concerned that their assets may indeed be “drafted” into service by the U.S. military in time of emergency (though of course they are paid for their services).
I not a matter of being called into service. If they can get a permeate job they sail all the time except when on vacation or on a leave of absents.
If they do not have a permeate job they will go to the union hall and try and get dispatched to another job. If they can not land a job sailing they can take temporary jobs ashore if they can land one.
Deck officers look at management jobs or business. Engineering officers will look at an engineering job ashore.
When I quit sailing I took a job as a Stationary Engineer.
It is just like your profession. If you are not working in your profession you look else where until you can land in your profession.
The only privately owned under US Flag that could be subjected to being “drafted” are ships that were build with subsidies or are being operated with subsidies. But even then they may not be “drafted”.
Any ship flying the US flag is subject to inspections by the USCG, and most labor laws apply.
The Merchant Marine involves any ship involved in commerce. That is why Merchant is used. The US Merchant Marine would be US flagged vessels.
[quote=“robby, post:22, topic:755464”]
Well, it certainly doesn’t include U.S. Navy warships, which are all operated under the U.S. flag.
I ."
The foreign owners, on the other hand, are concerned that their assets may indeed be “drafted” into service by the U.S. military in time of emergency (though of course they are paid for their services).[/QUOTE
The only foreign owned US flagged ship that I know of the NCL American line.
The largest operator of U.S. flagged merchant ships for international trade is Maersk Line, Limited (MLL). (It is also the largest employer of U.S. Merchant Mariners.) Maersk Line, Limited is the U.S. flag subsidiary of the Danish-based shipping company, Maersk Line. Maersk Line is a private company owned by A.P. Moller – Maersk Group, a Danish business conglomerate.
American President Lines (APL) has been owned by Singapore’s Neptune Orient Lines since 1997.
Also, SeaLand, another former U.S.-owned carrier, was acquired by Maersk Line in 1999.
You may be surprised to find that many U.S.-flagged merchant shipping companies have been acquired over the years by foreign companies.
There is a big difference between training and experience. You train till you get something right your experience takes you to the point where you never get it wrong. I personally think that coast guard sailors are probably the best at doing their job over regular Navy since they do their full job every day rather than only when there is a war on.
I used to work as a marine engineer on design and construction supervision of ships, mainly but not entirely merchant types. I sailed as a merchant (operating) engineer officer cadet as part of my education. In my work I dealt with merchant marine engineering personnel quite a bit and naval engineering personnel sometimes.
The short answer from my experience is that the ‘prowess’ of merchant marine crews person for person is greater on average, as several of the knowledgeable answers have already said.
However I’d add the degree depends who you are comparing. The engineering department of a large warship is largely composed of late teens/early 20’s people. There is no comparable cadre of low experience and knowledge people in a merchant engine room. The naval vessel has some senior NCO’s much stronger in practical experience relative to the kids, but typically without a strong formal education. It also has a few commissioned engineering officers who might be as strong in theoretical background as the licensed merchant marine engineer, but likely not as experienced given ‘up or out’ personnel practices of the military (for which there are valid reasons looking at the big picture). And the more senior USN people have to spend a good deal of their effort managing and training the less experience people.
On the merchant side there are non-licensed engineering personnel (often ex-USN enlisted, whereas licensed marine engineers are usually either merchant marine academy grads or unlicensed who worked their way up, rarely ex-USN officers). But there aren’t many, often fewer than the licensed engineers nowadays, and IME licensed people typically don’t depend on them much. IOW besides focusing on running a machinery plant for a long time, licensed merchant engineers have little in the way of personnel management tasks (except the chief) and mainly do what needs to be done themselves. A good licensed engineer can spend a lot of time learning how his or her machinery works at a deep level, and has a solid educational background to understand it. Of course not all are good, and certainly there are capable USN engineering personnel better than some merchant engineers. But the general advantage is with the merchant engineers.
This is why the USN has found it cheaper to operate auxiliaries with merchant crews (of the Military Sealift Command) than naval ones, even though the civilians get paid much more per person on average. Not nearly as many people are required, and the cost of outside maintenance, beyond what the crew can accomplish, also goes down. Most categories of naval auxiliary (oilers, ammo ships, etc) which were once ‘USS’ naval vessels are now ‘USNS’ civilian manned ships, including some ships originally built as ‘USS’.
That’s very interesting, thanks!
My question was partly inspired by a discussion on a German defense blog some time ago. A naval officer pointed out that under (German) law, he didn’t possess the formal qualification to be a civilian ship captain, should he decide to leave the service. Additional training would be required.
One of the points you need to understand is that being master of a commercial vessel requires skills that extend substantially beyond navigating the ship.
A master needs to have a very good understanding of cargo handling which is a massive specialised area of study. How to stow it, how to secure it, how to pump it (for liquid cargoes), how to handle a ship that has a mass that can change by hundreds of thousands of tonnes, and a draft accordingly, how to handle ballast how to look after cargo when on board, and on and on and on.
Then there’s all the commercial issues; dealing with bunker suppliers and cargo interests and charterers and so on.
There’s as much overlap between a naval captain and a merchant ship’s master as there is between cooking for your family and running a café.
On the topic of the Merchant Marine being called up for wartime service, see also the Civil Reserve Air Fleet, a similar arrangement with civilian airlines, which are under contract to provide airlift support to the US military when needed to supplement military airlift capacity.
I only know of 1 Coast Guard officer who was able to get his time in the Coast Guard to count as sea time to get his Engineering License. He had a 1 on 1 chief Engineer’s Steam and Motor Vessels any Hp. That means his 1st license issued was as an unlimited Chief. He spent a lot of years on different Cutters as an engineering officer. And his last duty was a large number of years in the Coast Guard’s inspection division. You know the people who say who is qualified to take what test and then to give the tests.
He was a very knowledgeable and qualified engineer. And one hell of a teacher.