# Nava, I can't let this go **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2007, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783 "2007-09-11T13:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/281 "2007-09-11T23:01:39Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Mass tragedy, be it Darfur or Katrina, the Sudan or Liberia are sad events that I did not realize people followed with a bowl of popcorn. [/QUOTE] It’s FUN! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/282 "2007-09-11T23:06:47Z")
> [@](#): > > No one actually thinks that. Framing the views of those you disagree with in such a foolish manner makes you look like an idiot. Not being a foaming at the mouth socialist who thinks the war in Iraq is the worst thing ever and the Democratic Party is the beacon of all that is great int he world means pretty much any opinion I voice will earn me the moniker of “idiot” from the teeming morons. Last I checked I had pretty firmly established I don’t care much what the den of degenerates that constitute the population of this forum think of me, if I did I would have stopped posting a long time ago. > [@](#): > > People _do_ think we should consider the opinions and perceptions of other countries when choosing our foreign policy. That’s because, like it or not, we need the help of other countries when fighting an international criminal enterprise. Which is what non-state-sponsored terrorism is. Some of our ostensible “allies” actually don’t have our best interests at heart. Shit, none of them do, they have **their** best interests at heart. For most of them, that means they need us to fail as a great power. The rhetoric and the overall political land scape of the world hasn’t really caught up to this reality, but the interests of America and Europe are not going in the same direction. There was a time when they were (during most of the Cold War) that time is past, Europe is now just another enemy. Our best hope is to do what we can to help the few remaining countries that haven’t bought into the pipe dream of trying to make themselves a super power (which excludes most of the EU, China, and India) so that those countries will continue to help us. Popular opinion across most of Europe is more on the side of Islamic extremists than it is Americans. It is baffling how so many Europeans will cheer on suicide bombers who kill American (or on a side issue–Israeli) soldiers while they complain about how their own countries are being overrun by Muslim immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/283 "2007-09-11T23:11:59Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Except that, in the case of Iraq, **Canada and France were right**. Look, that’s one of the biggest false dichotomies I’ve seen in a long time-- you either support Bush’s invasion of Iraq or you will destroy the US’s status as a great power. Pure bullshit, **Martin**. In fact, a stronger case can be made that the invasion of Iraq has damaged the US’s status as a great power in a way that not invading could never have done. [/quote] Yup, Canada and France were “right” in that if we hadn’t invaded Iraq France could have continued to make millions off of its dealings with Saddam Hussein’s regime. France’s only problem with us going into Iraq is we didn’t get their permission first, their leadership had no great moral opposition to it. How could they (as for Canada, who cares? Last I checked their military actually ran out of bullets at one point a few years ago–and I believe they lost an island in the arctic to the freaking Danish for awhile)? Look at all the dirty shit France does on a daily basis, it’s practically trying to corner the market when it comes to selling stuff to Islamic fundamentalist States like Iran. > [@](#): > > In any event, the US is a great power and we would have continued to be one without the invasion of Iraq. If the U.S. had allowed our foreign policy decisions to be vetoed by an organization as pathetic as the United Nations, a great power we would not have been. It doesn’t matter if the decision to go into Iraq was right or not (I think it was a decent decision, overall, but that’s a side issue and my feelings on the decision itself are complex), the decision to go or not to go has to be _our_ decision. It can’t be a decision that we get “approved” by the U.N. We can never allow a body like the U.N. veto power over our actions. That is what France really wanted, it wanted us to kowtow to the UN because it is a common theme that leaders in European states believe that they can actually hold their own with the United States by the manipulation of international NGOs. France or Russia easily could have let our resolutions concerning Iraq pass, it wouldn’t have hurt them at all. As would be typical for our UN allies they wouldn’t have to send any troops, what they did not want to do was give the green light because they wanted to show that they _could_ give the red light. Well, that failed. They didn’t give us permission and we went anyway, and it showed that we were still way too great a power to kowtow to the likes of a gutted Russia or an weak-willed France. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/284 "2007-09-11T23:12:00Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] If you are so intellectually lazy that the only response you can think up is a simple rephrasing of something I said then you should probably not even bother posting. [/QUOTE] You are right, that was lazy of me. Luckily, Giraffe and John Mace expressed exactly what I would have written if I hadn’t been so lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/285 "2007-09-11T23:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] You’re a perfect example of what is wrong with America. You’re too blinded by your idiotic ideology to realize what the _opposition_ to Bush represents. It represents the type of foreign policy which will destroy, without any hope of repair, our status as a great power. [/QUOTE] Ladies and gentlemen, I give you **Martin Hyde**! The man so dumb he’s entirely immune to irony! Don’t crowd too close, folks! You don’t want to get any of his drool on you! That stuff will strip the chrome off a trailer hitch. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/286 "2007-09-11T23:17:36Z")
Huh. For the longest time I thought Martin Hyde was just another idiot. Then for the last couple of months, maybe a year, he pulled himself together. He was able to make logical arguments, listen to what other people said, and started acting like a normal human being. And now all the sudden he’s back to his old hysterical self. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/287 "2007-09-11T23:21:29Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] Good god, it was six years ago and I’m willing to be that the overwhelming majority of people shitting themselves over **Nava** ’s comments wasn’t directly affected by the attacks. It happened; it was tragic. The sooner we, as a nation, move the fuck on and stop assuming that everyone in the world feels so sorry for our lost skyscrapers, the sooner we actually reduce the chance of more stupid attacks like 9/11. This smug self-importance makes me embarrassed to be American. [/QUOTE] Embarrassed? Really Ninja Chick? Perhaps these guys can help restore your pride in your country. Agnello, Joseph Ahern, Brian Allen, Eric Allen, Richard Amato, James Anaya Jr., Calixto Angelini Sr., Joseph Angelini Jr., Joseph Apostol Jr., Faustino Arce, David Arena, Louis Asaro, Carl Atlas, Gregg Atwood, Gerald Barnes, Matthew Baptiste, Gerald Barbara, Gerard Barry, Arthur Bates, Steven Bedigian, Carl Belson, Stephen Bergin, John Beyer, Paul Biefeld, Peter Bilcher, Brian Bini, Carl Blackwell, Christopher Bocchino, Michael Bonomo, Frank Box, Gary Boyle, Michael Bracken, Kevin Brennan, Michael Brennan, Peter Brethel, Daniel Brown, Patrick Brunton, Vincent Burke Jr., William Brunn, Andrew Bucca, Ronald Buck, Greg Burns, Donald Burnside, John Butler, Thomas Byrne, Patrick Cain, George Calabro, Salvatore Callahan, Frank Cammarata, Michael Cannizzaro, Brian Cardinale, David Carey, Dennis Carlo, Michael Carroll, Michael Carroll, Peter Casoria, Thomas Cawley, Michael Cherry, Vernon Chiofalo, Nicholas Chipura, John Clarke, Michael Coakley, Steven Coleman, Tarel Collins, John Cordicce, Robert Correa, Ruben Corrigan, James J. Coyle, James Crawford, Robert Crisci, John Cross, Dennis A. Cullen III, Thomas Curatolo, Robert D’Atri, Edward Dauria, Michael Davidson, Scott Day, Edward DeAngelis, Thomas Delvalle, Manuel Demeo, Martin Derubbio, David Desperito, Andrew Devlin, Dennis Dewan, Gerard Dipasquale, George Donnelly, Kevin Dowdell, Kevin Downey, Ray Duffy, Gerald Eagan Jr., Martin Elferis, Michael Esposito, Francis Esposito, Michael Evans, Robert Fanning, Jack Farino, Thomas Farrell, Terrance Farrelly, Joseph Feehan, William Fehling, Lee Feinberg, Alan Fiore, Frank Fiore, Michael Fischner, John Fletcher, Andre Florio, John Fodor, Michael Foley, Thomas Fontana, David Foti, Robert Fredricks, Andrew Freund, Peter Gambino Jr., Thomas Ganci Jr., Peter Garbarini, Charles Gardner, Thomas Garner, Thomas Garvey, Matthew Gary, Bruce Geidel, Gary Geraghty, Edward Germain, Denis Giberson, James Gies, Ronnie Gill, Paul Giammona, Vincent Ginley, John Giordano, Jeffery Giordano, John Glascoe, Keith Gray, James Grzelak, Joe Guadalupe, Jose Guja, Geoffrey Gullickson, Joseph Halderman, David Halloran, Vincent Hamilton, Robert Hanley, Sean Hannafin, Thomas Hannon, Dana Harlin, Daniel Harrell, Harvey Harrell, Stephen Haskell Jr.,Thomas Haskell, Timothy Halloran, Vincent Hatton, Terry Haub, Michael Hayes, Phillip Healey, Mike Heffernan, John Henderson, Ronnie Henry, Joseph Henry, William Hetzel, Thomas Hickey, Brian Higgins, Tim Hohmann, John Holohan, Thomas Hunter, Joseph Hynes, Walter Ielpi, Jonathan Ill Jr., Fredrick Johnston, William Jordan, Andrew Joseph, Karl Jovic, Anthony Juarbe Jr., Angel Judge, Mychal Kane, Vincent Kasper, Charles Keating, Paul Kelly, Thomas Kelly, Tom Kelly Jr., Richie Kennedy, Thomas Kerwin, Ronald T. Kiefer, Michael King Jr., Robert Krukowski, William Kopytko, Scott Kumpel, Kenneth Kuveikis, Thomas Laforge, David Lake, William Lane, Robert Langone, Peter Larsen, Scott Leavey, Joseph G. Leavy, Neil Libretti, Daniel Lillo, Carlos Linnane, Robert Lynch, Michael Lynch, Mike Lyons, Michael Lyons, Patrick Maffeo, Joseph Mahoney, William Maloney, Joseph Marino, Kenneth Margiotta, Charles Marchbanks Jr.,Joseph Marshell, John Martin, Peter Martini, Paul Mascali, Joseph Maynard, Keithroy Mcaleese, Brian Mcavoy, John McCann, Thomas McGinn, William McGovern, William Mchugh, Dennis McMahon, Robert McPadden, Robert McShane, Terence McSweeney, Timothy McWilliams, Martin Meisenheimer, Raymond Mendez, Charles Mercado, Steve Miller, Douglas Miller Jr., Henry Minara, Robert Mitchell, Paul Mingione, Thomas Modafferi, Louis Mojica, Dennis Mojica, Manuel Molinaro, Carl Montesi, Michael Moody, Thomas Morello, Vincent Moran, John Mozzillo, Christopher Muldowney Jr.,Richard Mullan, Michael Mulligan, Dennis Murphy, Raymond Nagle, Bob Napolitano, John Nelson, Peter Nevins, Gerard O’Berg, Dennis Oblschlager, Douglas O’Callaghan, Daniel Ogren, Joseph Oitice, Samuel O’Keefe, Patrick O’Keefe, William Olsen, Eric Olsen, Jeffery Olsen, Steven O’Rourke, Kevin Palazzo, Jeffery Palmer, Orio J. Palombo, Frank Pansini, Paul Paolillo, John Pappageorge, James Parro, Robert Pearsall, Durrell Perry, Glenn Petti, Philip Pfeiffer, Kevin Pickford, Christopher Phelan, Kenneth Powell, Shawn Princiotta, Vincent Prior, Kevin Prunty, Richard Quappe, Lincoln Quilty, Michael Orourke, Kevin Otten, Michael Quinn, Ricardo Ragaglia, Leonard Ragusa, Michael Rall, Edward Rand, Adam Regan, Donald Regan, Robert Regenhard, Christian Richard, Vernon Riches, James Rivelli Jr., Joseph Reilly, Kevin Roberts, Michael Roberts, Mike Rocco Jr., Anthony Rodriquez, Anthony Rogan, Matthew Rossomando, Nicholas Rubach, Paul Russell, Stephen Russo, Michael T. Ryan, Matthew L. Sabella, Thomas Santora, Christopher Santore, John Saucedo, Gregory Scauso, Dennis Schardt, John Scheffold, Fred Schoales, Thomas Schrang, Gerard Sikorsky, Gregory Siller, Stephen Smagala Jr., Stanely Smith, Kevin Smith Jr., Leon Spear Jr., Robert Spor, Joseph Stack, Lawrence Stackpole, Timothy Stajk, Gregory Stark, Jeffery Suarez, Benjamin Suhr, Daniel Sullivan, Christopher Sweeney, Brian Tallon, Sean Tarasiewicz, Allen Tegtmeirer, Paul Tierney, John Tipping II, John Tirado Jr., Hector VanHine, Richard Vaskis, Francis Vega, Peter Veling, Lawrence Vigiano II, John Villanueva, Sergio Virgilio, Lawrence Wallace, Robert Walz, Jeffery Warchola, Michael Waters, Patrick Watson, Kenneth Weinberg, Michael Weiss, David Welty, Timothy Whelan, Eugene White, Edward Whitford, Mark Weinberg, Michael Wilkinson, Glenn Williamson, John Wren, William Wooley, David York, Raymond There’s 343 of 'em in case you don’t feel like counting. Tip of the damned iceberg. I’m not “shitting myself” over Nava. She’s welcome to her opinion no matter how repugnant I consider it. Facts are though, I was affected, as were thousands of my brothers and sisters across the country, and I will be godDAMNED if I’m going to sit quietly and let the idea that anything about this day was FUN go without comment. She’s made her apologies, that’s her business. this is mine. I’m proud to be an American, no matter who the “leader” is. America isn’t Bush, nor was it Clinton, America is you, me, and everyone who’s on our side. Call me a jingoist is you must, but there’s a reason so many people are trying so hard to get in and stay and so few people trying to get out, and that reason is worth defending in my estimation. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/288 "2007-09-11T23:22:17Z")
I hope this one goes through. I want to apologize for flying off the handle to **Nava** ’s 100km post. I misread it. This thread has gotten me thinking about 9/11 and our cultural response to it. I think one reason it stirs such strong emotions (besides the obvious) is that it was used to lead us into a morass of horrible mistakes that we will feel the consequences of for decades, if not longer. I am no knee jerk patriot and have always felt that our response to 9/11 was the worst kind of jingoism. That said, I can understand other’s not seeing it quite that way and even those who still grieve due to a personal loss of a loved one or just the loss of their innocence as individuals re their invulnerability. I stand by my other posts, though-I would never think of mocking the Tube bombings or the ones that Spain suffered. This thread has gone on too long and I bow out now. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/289 "2007-09-11T23:25:41Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] … For most of them, that means they need us to fail as a great power. … Our best hope is to do what we can to help the few remaining countries that haven’t bought into the pipe dream of trying to make themselves a super power (which excludes most of the EU, China, and India) … [/QUOTE] Do most countries in the world really “need us to fail as a great power”? They don’t mind knocking us down a peg from time to time, as America-bashing (within a limited range of what constitutes “American”) tends to play well with the masses, but I think you’re overstating things. I’m sure that most governments in the world would acknowledge that a stable, economically confident, militarily strong (but not reckless) United States is better for them than most alternatives. And isn’t it a bit funny that you denigrate other countries for a “pipe dream” of becoming a super-power, when you dream so desperately for the United States to maintain that status? ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/290 "2007-09-11T23:30:14Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Then for the last couple of months, maybe a year, he pulled himself together. He was able to make logical arguments, listen to what other people said, and started acting like a normal human being. And now all the sudden he’s back to his old hysterical self. [/QUOTE] My thoughts exactly. I never understood why **Mr. Hyde** had such a bad reputation on these boards, on a number of instances he came off as downright reasonable and I bothered to read his posts more that I would for the average poster. After this rather stunning little apoplectic implosion, I won’t be making the effort anymore. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/291 "2007-09-11T23:33:47Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] If it directly involves people, I usually feel very passionate about it and follow it in detail. If it does not, I try to keep abreast of it, but not in a rubbernecking way. [/QUOTE] Where’s the line between following it in detail and being a rubbernecker? I don’t know where it is. I’d bet lots of us would put it in different places. We don’t tend to watch things or read things we don’t want to watch or read (apart from work). So, if we’re sitting there watching endless reports on some tragedy, don’t we have to enjoy it in some way or other? No one is forcing us to watch anything, so we’re choosing to watch endless loops of airplanes crashing into buildings or white Broncos cruising up the freeway. I think we have to enjoy that or we wouldn’t do it. I’m not big on watching most of those current events/tragedy shows, but make it political and I’m all over it. I love politics. I love elections. They are fun. 2000 was fun. 2004 was fun. Not the outcome I wanted. An outcome that horrified me. But it was still fun. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/292 "2007-09-11T23:34:24Z")
> [@](#): > > My thoughts exactly. I never understood why Mr. Hyde had such a bad reputation on these boards, on a number of instances he came off as downright reasonable and I bothered to read his posts more that I would for the average poster. Well, I thought so too, and to some extent still do, but I’m from one of those pissant little countries that are beneath the contempt of our American overlords, so it isn’t going to get me very far with him. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/293 "2007-09-11T23:50:55Z")
[QUOTE=Throatwarbler Mangrove] Well, I thought so too, and to some extent still do, but I’m from one of those pissant little countries that are beneath the contempt of our American overlords, so it isn’t going to get me very far with him. 😛 [/QUOTE] TM, when will you take my repeated advice and realize you don’t HAVE to think of yourself as being “from” any “country” at all? That way Martin Hyde won’t make you feel bad 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/294 "2007-09-12T00:17:57Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Embarrassed? Really Ninja Chick? Perhaps these guys can help restore your pride in your country. [long list of names snipped] There’s 343 of 'em in case you don’t feel like counting. Tip of the damned iceberg. I’m not “shitting myself” over Nava. She’s welcome to her opinion no matter how repugnant I consider it. Facts are though, I was affected, as were thousands of my brothers and sisters across the country, and I will be godDAMNED if I’m going to sit quietly and let the idea that anything about this day was FUN go without comment. She’s made her apologies, that’s her business. this is mine. I’m proud to be an American, no matter who the “leader” is. America isn’t Bush, nor was it Clinton, America is you, me, and everyone who’s on our side. Call me a jingoist is you must, but there’s a reason so many people are trying so hard to get in and stay and so few people trying to get out, and that reason is worth defending in my estimation. [/QUOTE] I suggest you don’t wrap yourself so tight in that flag, you don’t want to pull an Isadora Duncan. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/295 "2007-09-12T00:29:37Z")
Well, if nothing else, **Martin** has provided a salutary lesson: If you make an ill-advised comment about America, and get dragged to the Pit, just send him a link to the thread, because the odds are good that he’ll make your indiscretion look tame and inoffensive in very short order. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/296 "2007-09-12T00:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] Yeah, when the Madrid bombing attacks happened I thought it was so funny watching all the Cockered Spaniards running around like chickens with their heads cut off :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Or imagine this posted somewhere on the boards: _I grew up in the shadows of a fundamentalist madrassa. Seeing that Abu Ghraib prisoner with the carrot sticking out of his ass ouchie, seeing those Iraqis stacked naked like a bunch of hairy co-ed cheerleaders … was actually kind of fun._ ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/297 "2007-09-12T01:03:49Z")
[QUOTE=JohnBckWLD] Or imagine this posted somewhere on the boards: _I grew up in the shadows of a fundamentalist madrassa. Seeing that Abu Ghraib prisoner with the carrot sticking out of his ass ouchie, seeing those Iraqis stacked naked like a bunch of hairy co-ed cheerleaders … was actually kind of fun._ [/QUOTE] Now I know you are just kidding. That wasn’t really a carrot-I didn’t _mean_ carrot, anyway-and he was just holding it between his thighs. It was fun! It’s not like his corporate HQ called and told him to stick a carrot in his ass. I don’t know how you could think I’d say that he should have a carrot up his ass, I didn’t mean asses when I said “his ass”. But if it makes you happy to think that me saying that he should have a carrot shoved up his ass meant he should have an ass with a carrot in it, that just shows that you don’t understand. That’s funny! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/298 "2007-09-12T01:12:50Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] You’re a perfect example of what is wrong with America. You’re too blinded by your idiotic ideology to realize what the _opposition_ to Bush represents. It represents the type of foreign policy which will destroy, without any hope of repair, our status as a great power. Bush is inept at times and probably guilty of extreme dishonesty. But he’s still in a whole different league from people who are actually dumb enough to think we’re going to solve the world’s problems by letting piss ant countries like France and Canada dictate to us _our_ foreign policy [/QUOTE] My reply got consumed in the board outage, so I will try again. You have me confused with some other poster. I would have voted for McCain or Bradley in 2000, instead I got offered Bush the Lesser (also a draft dodger) and Al Gore the one without a personality. I foolishly voted for Nader, not that it mattered much, because I live in NJ and not Florida. I will probably vote for Rudy if I get the chance. So I am not a knee-jerk liberal, I am a moderate Republican that continually finds your posts repugnant. I hope you proclaim yourself a libertarian so I don’t need to be ashamed of sharing a political party with you. Bush is a very bad president. Cheney is extremely crooked and corrupt. If you can still defend them, I think you have the problem, not the rest of the board that seemingly agrees with the bulk of America and of course most of the world. Jim (Funny the Right Winger thinks I am a discusting lefty and the real lefties think I am a crazy righty, I must be doing something correct 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/299 "2007-09-12T01:19:29Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] It’s FUN! [/QUOTE] I am always slow with these, this was a joke? [QUOTE=jsgoddess] Where’s the line between following it in detail and being a rubbernecker? I don’t know where it is. I’d bet lots of us would put it in different places. We don’t tend to watch things or read things we don’t want to watch or read (apart from work). So, if we’re sitting there watching endless reports on some tragedy, don’t we have to enjoy it in some way or other? No one is forcing us to watch anything, so we’re choosing to watch endless loops of airplanes crashing into buildings or white Broncos cruising up the freeway. I think we have to enjoy that or we wouldn’t do it. I’m not big on watching most of those current events/tragedy shows, but make it political and I’m all over it. I love politics. I love elections. They are fun. 2000 was fun. 2004 was fun. Not the outcome I wanted. An outcome that horrified me. But it was still fun. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I got the idea, I am the odd one on these things. I don’t get any recreation or titillation from disasters or Celebrity train wrecks. I guess I learned something today. I am not sure I like what I learned, but so be it. Jim BTW: \*\*Giraffe \*\* and **Miller** , thank you for your posts. I appreciate their depth and intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783/300 "2007-09-12T01:26:44Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I hope you proclaim yourself a libertarian so I don’t need to be ashamed of sharing a political party with you. [/QUOTE] Whoa, easy killer. We don’t want him either! In fact Libertarians have overwhelmingly objected to the conduct of the Bush administration in invading Iraq and their intrusions upon the civil liberties of citizens and non-citizens alike in the pursuit of the Global War on Terror… blah blah blah. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nava-i-cant-let-this-go/418783.md?page=16)