He does know about the military. He served honorably for a number of years and gave me a lot of support when I joined.
I find it a bit appalling that you would bust the chops of a fellow military member because his job is “cush”. If he did his job to the best of his ability it shouldn’t matter what his job was.
Perhaps. Respectfully, Sir, I think that neither of us are in a position to judge. That said, the fact that he is being shown the door is indicative of something. Obviously the OP thinks that politics have something to do with it. Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way the man is gone. More’s the pity. People get shown the door all the time, some good and some bad. Life goes on.
My oldest friend is an Air Force JAG who is two years away from making LtCol (the equivalent of what Swift is trying to do) or getting thrown out on his Eear. ;). He had to take and pass a very intensive coarse on leadership which is really meant for regular officers as one of the requirements of making the next rank.
It’s too late to call my friend to ask him but I think I remember him saying that for potentially notorious cases, they ask for volunteers from qualified JAGs before someone would be forced to do it. They usually have no shortage of volunteers. I’ll give him a call tomorrow.
I wasn’t “busting his chops”. I have no opinion one way or another about the man. I will tell you, and ANY JAG officer will tell you this, that to describe a JAG as “one of our government’s bravest and most skillful servants” is foolish and takes the credit away from the men and women who risk their lives every day dodging bullets, dropping bombs, and saving lives. JAGs do none of this.
I’m an engineer now (was an enlisted power troop in CE for 6 years). If someone told me I was “one of our government’s bravest and most skillful servants” I would turn red and explain to them who the REAL brave people are in the USAF, and it ain’t your standard issue 62E Developmental Engineer.
Like I said before, the guy got punted as a result of a system that has been in place for DECADES and has ejected hundreds, if not thousands, of great officers before him. He’s likely no different.
Heck, the USAF is already working to cut 40k active duty postions from the books by 2009. They are currently offering early retirement options to Lt Col and Cols to get rid of them. In the 90s the promotion rate to major slipped to 50-60% for a couple years and tons of great Capts were sent packing. They are getting ready to release, and have already released, thousands of Lts because they overhired in the early 2000s. It doesn’t mean there is a conspiracy or that all of them (us) are bad officers. It’s just the way the system works.
Stinkpalm, I will readily and graciously accept criticism and correction of my spelling. Your assumption that I am wildly ignorant of the armed forces or the machinations of the practice of law in or out of uniform is, however, misplaced. I served as a junior infantry officer and for five years as an army judge advocate during the late unpleasantness in Southeast Asia, and for a number of years more as a judge advocate in the Army Reserve. I certainly know the armed forces, the role of uniformed lawyers and the workings of the promotion system. I have practiced law as a civilian for nearly 35 years. I did not come into town on a load of turnips.
Judge advocate officers do not enter on active duty at a remarkably higher pay grade. At best a new JAG came on to active duty in the old days as a First Lieutenant. This wasn’t unreasonable considering that, first some rank was necessary in order to get people to pay any attention to him, second that he had just invested in three years of education beyond the ordinary undergraduate degree, third that he had committed for at least four years of active duty and fifth that the armed forces were trying to recruit the best people they could get in competition with an active civilian market for young law school graduates. In those bad old days the promotion to First Lieutenant came after one year of service for a line officer and Captain after two. During Vietnam, Army Judge Advocates were commissioned as 1LT in the regular or reserve with a kick to acting CPT in just a few weeks. There were plenty of medical doctors coming on active duty for two years as Majors and Lieutenant Colonels. Judge Advocate officers did not then receive “professional pay” in addition to the regular pay and allowances, as did medical officers and maybe veterinarians.
The hairy promotion was not from Major / Lieutenant Commander to Lieutenant Colonel / Commander. That was just a matter of having completed the necessary military education (in the case of the Army, the branch advance course and a fair piece of the Command and General Staff course) and having avoided being labeled as a idiot. The tough promotion was the next kick to Colonel in the Army, Air Force and Marine Corps and Captain in the Navy. It appears that LT CDR Swift was denied the perfectly routine promotion from O-4 to O-5.
My experience was that the vast number of JAGs retired as LTCs, not as MAJs. JAGs from the other services I met at the school at Charlottesville were saying the same thing and were sweating the promotion to O-6, not the promotion to O-5.
If you read the item in the Kansas paper you will see that the Marine colonel that called LT CDR Swift’s service distinguished was the chief of the defense counsel at Gitmo, not just some random Jarhead. The guy was Swift’s rater, presumably. Others are quoted in the Kansas newspaper article, too.
In terms of bravery, Swift’s decision to carry Hamdan’s case to the Sup Ct, to represent him vigorously, was a commitment that required a significant amount of moral courage. Swift had to know that there was a significant risk to his career.
The whole thing seems to me to be more than a little fishy.
He’s an officer, not a sailor. The military needs good lawyers, and he looks to be one of the best. Just seems like a bonehead move. Yeah, maybe he failed his physical. Maybe he didn’t salute properly. Maybe. I’m more than willing to hear both sides, but somehow I doubt we ever will.
The “system” is merely a tool for implementing decisions by real humans with real motivations. The guy got punted by other guys with their own motivations, not a system.
They start at O-3 (Captain/Navy Lieutenant) nowadays. That’s much better than your common butterbar, although it does reflect the higher level of education.
That’s what I thought as well, although not being an officer I didn’t venture an opinion because Stinkpalm knows much more about that than I do.
That’s not an unreasonable assumption, but as others have said it’s hard to tell. There are lots of reasons why he might have been mustered out.
shrug Like I said, lots of people get the gate for lots of reasons. Who knows why he got booted? Surely not you or I.
No they don’t. But they do their jobs (presumably) with dilligence, like eveyone else. Yes, the accolades were kinda thick, but that in no way diminishes his service, “cush” job or not. That’s what I object to. Honorable service is honorable service, be it a cook, an infantryman, a fighter pilot, or a lawyer.
There’s certainly a tad more than two weeks lead time on a promotion list.
It’s Chaplain, not Chaplin.
The Navy calls them Fitness Reports (FITREPs).
Over the years, a number of people have won their cases in front of the Supreme Court. It could be that they’re all excellent lawyers or it could be as simple as the case wasn’t all that hard to argue. I’m going to go with the excellent lawyer theme.
Punishing the man for doing his duty is against the regulations, to say the least. We don’t know if that’s actually the case here, though. One would have to see all the files for all the officers the promotion board reviewed. As mentioned above, promotion’s not guaranteed.
It comes with a prominent history. The JAG defeated and embarrassed the administration in a major human rights case before the SC. That’s not something achieved without courage and skill.
With something this prominent, the decision to lose him was bound to send a message. There seem to be 2 possibilities:
TPTB:
Wanted to send to send the message received and understood by the OP; or
They didn’t much care what message went out.
As Spavined Gelding and John Mace have pointed out, the experience and skill evidenced by the JAG makes the decision to lose him look shaky and hence, the former possibility the more likely one.
But with all due respect is the “late unpleasantness” you are referring to Vietnam? From 30+ years ago? If so I don’t think I would describe that as “late” and alot has changed in 30 years SG. This kind of reminds me of my gramps habit of giving me the rundown of how the military works and how I should handle my career in the 2000s based on his experiences in Korea and Vietnam.
Heck, the administration of the USAF has changed dramatically since I first entered in 1995.
That IS a remarkably higher pay grade than a fresh 2 Lt today. That’s about $10K/year more. And like you said, they hit Capt within 6mo which is another $10-12K/year. When you are only making 32K as a 2Lt to begin with, that’s alot of money.
Not any more true than for any other butter bar coming into a unit fresh out of ROTC/OTS/Academy etc… and JAGs don’t have to convince people to listen to them when they tell them to run towards the gun fire.
Now, I’ve always thought that this was a bunch of bullshit honestly. I have no real heartburn over MDs, Pharms, JAGs and MAYBE Chaplains getting paid differently due to competition from the civil sector. BUT, I am absolutely against the idea that in order to pay someone more they must be given a higher RANK. That’s bullshit IMHO. Pay a guy more, that’s fine, but bringing someone in off the street and starting them off at Maj or Lt Col is not neccessary and presents a false level of experience to subordinates. When a security forces airman encounters a Lt Col surgeon from the med group he probably doesn’t know that a) the LTC just entered the military last week and b) the LTC does not have command authority and cannot issue him direct orders, even though he is an O-5.
Give them the pay but not the rank. That’s what I say.
Nowadays, at least in the USAF there are no sure things. Like I said, they are dumping a ton of people in all ranks as we speak.
And you should know, even in the Vietnam era, that one or two good years isn’t going to get anyone promoted if they had a few mediocre-bad years. This guy may have had a great couple of years here at the end, but maybe his early years were mediocre with no stratification, awards, etc… to set him apart.
Again, I have recieved formal recognition as one of the top Lts in a NAF (Numbered Air Force) equivalent unit from a 2 star general. That doesn’t mean that I’ll make major when I hit the board. It takes more than just a few good years to set yourself apart as a stellar officer. And it only takes one bad year to taint your record forever as a bad officer.
No dismissal is going to occur in these circumstances without an awareness and consideration of the message that dismissal is going to send. Remember this is high profile stuff. There really are only 2 options: Both concern that message:
Intent; or
Indifference.
Why? Because like it or not, this is a showcase to demonstrate the integrity of its military law. Either the Navy wanted the message out there that:
Its laws have no integrity; or
It is indifferent to its law’s reputation.
Instead, appointing this man would have been a proud moment to highlight the independence and integrity of the system. There is no telling me that any one of these points was not thought of in the whole process.
I bow to no one in my scorn for GW and his administration. However what you post is why this isn’t an open and shut case of payback. I believe that it is a case of the “third time is the charm.” So this JAG had been passed over at least once, if your two is correct, or twice if it’s the third passover that means out.
It is entirely possible to be a crackerjack attorney and not as good a naval officer as those with whom you are competing.
I agree it looks suspicious on its face and that’s why this is a good means of getting rid of those that are troublemakers, but in order to do so the “troublemaker” also has to be on the edge anyway.
I’m inclined to believe that Monty has it correct with #3. I’m not familiar with Navy Regs, but the Army would only force you to retire if you were twice passed over for promotion. There is a good chance that Lt.Cdr. Swift may have already had a strike against him, for whatever reason.
Dude, you make it sound as if he was fired and booted in the middle of an assignment. He wasn’t “dismissed” in that sense of the word. He was let go because he got passed over for promotion. If you understand that this happens with all officers at some point, why can’t you see the (likely) possibility that is exactly what happened here?
BTW, he got to retire from the Navy so now he gets to go work in the civil sector as an attorney and draw a full military retirement for the rest of his life starting immediately. Poor guy.
This is correct. JAG’s are not line officers. WThis means that they are not elegible for command except within the JAG corps. They don’t have to be great sailors — but they do have to be good naval officers.
I too doubt that both sides will be heard because the reason for the third passover doesn’t need to be explained. The first and second yes because you have to tell the individual what he or she needs to improve but there is no way to improve yourself out of being involuntarily separated.