# Navy destroyer Fitzgerald collides with merchant ship **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149 "2017-06-16T23:16:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/141 "2017-06-23T14:24:37Z")
More info: \*\*[Freighter Was On Autopilot When It Hit U.S. Destroyer\*\*](http://freebeacon.com/national-security/freighter-autopilot-hit-us-destroyer/) Tracking data broadcast from the Crystal as part of the Automatic Identification System (AIS) shows the ship changed course by 90 degrees to the right and slightly reduced its speed between around 1:32 a.m. and 1:34 a.m. After that time, the data shows the ship turned to the left and resumed a northeastern coarse along its original track line. Private naval analyst Steffan Watkins said the course data indicates the ship was running on autopilot. “The ACX Crystal powered out of the deviation it performed at 1:30, which was likely the impact with the USS Fitzgerald, pushing it off course while trying to free itself from being hung on the bow below the waterline,” Watkins told the Free Beacon. The ship then continued to sail on for another 15 minutes, increasing speed before eventually reducing speed and turning around. “This shows the autopilot was engaged because nobody would power out of an accident with another ship and keep sailing back on course. It’s unthinkable,” he added. Watkins said the fact that the merchant ship hit something and did not radio the coast guard for almost 30 minutes also indicates no one was on the bridge at the time of the collision. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/142 "2017-06-23T14:28:42Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > I was on a tanker that clipped another tanker. The other tanker was docked and we were coming in to dock. Tore 3 inches of the deck and handrail right the upper deck just outside of my quarters. > > From what the rumor mill had going the tanker we hit was loading high octane gas, and some people on the tanker we hid were jumping off the fantail. Scary stuff. Mind you, jumping off the fantail is a BIT over dramatic and pointless - Most cases, you’d get a nasty fire, but you’d have to do something REALLY spectacular to need an _immediate_ abandon ship. Frankly, in the case of somthing that spectacular, it’d mostly likely simply mean that you died wet, instead of dry, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/143 "2017-06-23T14:32:28Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > More info: > \*\*[Freighter Was On Autopilot When It Hit U.S. Destroyer\*\*](http://freebeacon.com/national-security/freighter-autopilot-hit-us-destroyer/) > > Watkins said the fact that the merchant ship hit something and did not radio the coast guard for almost 30 minutes also indicates no one was on the bridge at the time of the collision. Oh, boy. :smack: That’s… BAD. Really, really bad. I still want to know what the _HELL_ was going on, on the Fitz’s bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/144 "2017-06-23T14:41:38Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > > > More info: > > > > . . . Steffan Watkins . . . > > Oh, boy. :smack: > That’s… BAD. Really, really bad. [Princhester put forward a contrary that should be read.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20290339&postcount=100) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/145 "2017-06-23T15:18:52Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [Princhester put forward a contrary that should be read.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20290339&postcount=100) The analyst may be a complete tool, but the AIS information is fairly damning. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/146 "2017-06-23T21:02:08Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [Princhester put forward a contrary that should be read.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20290339&postcount=100) Seems that Japanese authorities are [getting on board](https://news.usni.org/2017/06/21/investigators-believe-uss-fitzgerald-crew-fought-flooding-for-an-hour-before-distress-call-reached-help) the “No one at the helm” theory, too: > [@](#): > > According to the current operational theory of Japanese investigators, the deadly collision between USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62) and the Philippine-flagged merchant ship ACX Crystal knocked out the destroyer’s communications for an hour, while the four-times-larger merchant ship was unaware of what it hit until it doubled back and found the damaged warship, two sources familiar with the ongoing Japanese investigation told USNI News on Wednesday. Meanwhile, RADM Brian Fort is [taking charge of the JAGMAN investigation](https://news.usni.org/2017/06/23/former-destroyer-commander-to-lead-uss-fitzgerald-collision-investigation)(which will become public record). He’s broadly-experienced and well respected. He’s been a Nuc, and a Destroyer and Destroyer Squadron commander as well ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/147 "2017-06-24T02:38:30Z")
Japan’s national broadcaster, NHK, is reporting that > [@](#): > > The Coast Guard Office adds the crew of the [commercial] vessel told them that they saw lights on board the warship before the collision. > (. . .) The coast guard officers are looking into what color of lights were on at the time of the accident. NHK is considered trustworthy for facts (leaving aside any question of political leanings) so this is interesting. Would they have lookouts but not anyone running the ship? ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/148 "2017-06-24T04:14:23Z")
I realize that it is a Philippian Flag ship and with lower qualifications than the USCG, but the claim there was no one on the bridge is not believable. The claim that they did not realize there was a collision until they made a mysterious u turn is even more unbelievable. I doubt any ship on the open ocean ever runs with no one on the bridge. And a ship in restricted waters, there was someone on the bridge. The claim that the two ships collided knocking the Crystal 90 degrees off course? And Auto pilot tried to separate the two ships on its self. If a ship was off course The Auto pilot would only try to get the ship back course If knocked to the right the auto pilot would put left rudder to the amount set in auto pilot. And if a ship was knocked 90 degrees off course everyone would know there was incident. The Captain, every mate not on watch, and the radio officer would be headed to the bridge. Everyone else on the ship would head out onto deck to see what happened. The engineering officers would head to the engine room to check on the main engine and auxiliaries. Once on the bridge The captain would begin to give orders to find out the damage to the ship. Placing a radio call would not be the first order of business. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/149 "2017-06-24T05:20:27Z")
Any updates on Cmdr. Bryce Benson’s condition? Head injuries can be very unpredictable. I haven’t seen this mentioned. I wasn’t aware the captain has two cabins. I gather he should have been in his sea cabin? Nice summary of any future investigation. > **[A skipper’s thoughts on the Fitzgerald](https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/23/a-skippers-thoughts-on-the-fitzgerald/)** > > Final judgments on causes and blame will have to wait completion of the investigation, but there’s sufficient information to raise some early questions. > [@](#): > > The destroyer’s commanding officer was asleep in his in-port cabin two decks below the bridge at the instant of collision. Why wasn’t he called to the bridge early on as the situation developed? Why was he not sleeping in his sea cabin mere steps from the bridge? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/150 "2017-06-24T05:35:19Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > I realize that it is a Philippian Flag ship and with lower qualifications than the USCG, but the claim there was no one on the bridge is not believable. The claim that they did not realize there was a collision until they made a mysterious u turn is even more unbelievable. > > I doubt any ship on the open ocean ever runs with no one on the bridge. And a ship in restricted waters, there was someone on the bridge. Oh, it’s entirely believable. Read upthread about merchant manning levels. Then consider - you’ve got two people on the bridge. One runs down to the galley to get a snack - it’s just a couple minutes, right? Then the other has an urgent need to visit the head… No one on the bridge. Suddenly, the ship heels and you don’t know why. Watchstanders rush back to the bridge. What’s going on? The Fitz is now behind them. It’s dark - they look around, but don’t see anything (no rear-view mirrors on a ship!). Call off-watch crew to check things about the ship, get a report that the Port Bow Fence is stove in - Realization strikes! That’s one plausible scenario. There are others. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Any updates on Cmdr. Bryce Benson’s condition? Head injuries can be very unpredictable. > > I haven’t seen this mentioned. I wasn’t aware the captain has two cabins. I gather he should have been in his sea cabin? The skipper can sleep in whichever one he wants. In-port cabin is more like an office space with a bunk. The Sea Cabin is closer to the bridge and CIC. But in normal peacetime sailing, one or the other - Captian’s choice, really. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/151 "2017-06-24T05:55:36Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Oh, it’s entirely believable. Read upthread about merchant manning levels. Then consider - you’ve got two people on the bridge. One runs down to the galley to get a snack - it’s just a couple minutes, right? Then the other has an urgent need to visit the head… No one on the bridge. > > Suddenly, the ship heels and you don’t kow why. Watchstanders rush back to the bridge. What’s going on? The Fitz is now behind them. It’s dark - they look around, but don’t see anything (no rear-view mirrors on a ship!). Call off-watch crew to check things about the ship, get a report that the Port Bow Fence is stove in - Realization strikes! > > That’s one plausible scenario. There are others. > > The skipper can sleep in whichever one he wants. In-port cabin is more like an office space with a bunk. The Sea Cabin is closer to the bridge and CIC. But in normal peacetime sailing, one or the other - Captian’s choice, really. I understand manning levels. Two people on the bridge. 12-4 watch. They got night lunches before going on watch. One gets hungry and has to wait until 4:00 to get his snack. You take your pisses before going on watch. In a channel you do not leave the bridge to take a piss. And if you were to sloppy enough to step off the bridge with ships around you would not step off the bridge if the other person is already off the bridge. It was reported the crew before the accident, so they knew a ship was close. They should have been plotting where the Fitz was. And remember If you screw up on your job you may get fired. You do something this bad on the bridge of ship you can have your license that means you loose your profession not just your job. To me it is highly unlikely no one was on the bridge at any time much less in restricted waters other ships around or not. Any mate who would leave an empty bridge should have his license even without an accident. And any Captain or 1st mate who would this to happen on their ship should also loose their licence. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/152 "2017-06-24T12:09:52Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Oh, it’s entirely believable. Read upthread about merchant manning levels. Then consider - you’ve got two people on the bridge. One runs down to the galley to get a snack - it’s just a couple minutes, right? Then the other has an urgent need to visit the head… No one on the bridge. > > That’s one plausible scenario. There are others. There’s no absolute limit to human negligence, but as Snnipe 70E pointed out, the attitudes and practices you infer would be _way_ out there negligence. The unlicensed person would never leave to ‘get a snack’ if the officer didn’t say OK and that’s virtually inconceivable IMO. As in some airline disasters, the lower ranking person, in this case the Able Bodied Seaman, might feel pressure not to resist or report even extremely negligent behavior by the licensed officer (which leaving watch to ‘get a snack’ would be). But then that person would independently commit an even bigger act of gross negligence by also leaving, and not notifying anyone if ‘urgent bathroom need’? It seems far fetched, but again the first sentence. Although if the ship was routinely operated with one person on the bridge, and it’s not unusual for big ships to have the necessary outfit for that, though it is unusual for their owners to actually practice it, then they turn on ‘dead man’ devices to give alarms if that person leaves or is incapacitated. A normal two person watch OTOH can conspire to be negligent with no alarms necessarily set off, but that’s what it would have to be. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/153 "2017-06-24T13:33:51Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Be glad I wsan’t talking in “shots” or “Chains.” 😛 (90 feet, fifteen Fathoms) - i.e. The Tarawa was five shots off our bow. 😃 I’m sure that would have been tempting. About six months ago I saw on [Youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7pRfix_sNg) a video of a ship losing her ground tackle in Hong Kong harbor. Turns out it was _Tarawa_(!) “Shots” are mentioned quite often during the incident, and when the chain gets moving again you can see the white-painted shot marks going by faster and faster. The next-to-last “warning shot” is yellow and the last “danger shot” is red but it’s hard to spot those because the cameraman was (quite sensibly) getting the hell out of the way when they ran by. If you scroll down the comments a bit, Garry Hall was the guy giving orders on the bridge and blames the butterbar who was in charge of the chain locker. ---
**Author:** ![Navigator66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/43a26b/32.png) [@Navigator66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navigator66)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/154 "2017-06-24T22:57:54Z")
Slight hijack here, but it’s page 4. Snnipe70E seems to know what he is talking about. Did you perchance spend some time in Buzzards Bay, or maybe belong to that hallowed frat Theta Pi Sigma? If so, I was one of your youngie’s, 72D. A Sir, Young Sir, Man Sir, Is Sir, For Sir, A Sir, Old Sir, Man Sir, To Sir, Step Sir, On Sir, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/155 "2017-06-25T01:29:51Z")
> [@Navigator66](#): > > Slight hijack here, but it’s page 4. > > Snnipe70E seems to know what he is talking about. Did you perchance spend some time in Buzzards Bay, or maybe belong to that hallowed frat Theta Pi Sigma? If so, I was one of your youngie’s, 72D. > > A Sir, Young Sir, Man Sir, Is Sir, For Sir, A Sir, Old Sir, Man Sir, To Sir, Step Sir, On Sir, Sir. CMA 70E, You have the Master here. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/156 "2017-06-25T12:17:12Z")
> [@Navigator66](#): > > Slight hijack here, but it’s page 4. > > Snnipe70E seems to know what he is talking about. Did you perchance spend some time in Buzzards Bay, or maybe belong to that hallowed frat Theta Pi Sigma? If so, I was one of your youngie’s, 72D. > > A Sir, Young Sir, Man Sir, Is Sir, For Sir, A Sir, Old Sir, Man Sir, To Sir, Step Sir, On Sir, Sir. > [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > CMA 70E, You have the Master here. Can someone translate this please? ---
**Author:** ![Navigator66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/43a26b/32.png) [@Navigator66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navigator66)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/157 "2017-06-25T13:39:11Z")
Translation for “What Exit”: Buzzards Bay = Mass. Maritime Academy Theta Pi Sigma = Our unofficial frat. = TPS = This Place Sucks. Youngie = Plebe at Mass. Maritime 72D = Graduated 1972 as Deck Officer CMA = California Maritime Academy 70E = Graduated 1970 as Engineering Officer A Sir, Young Sir, … = What plebes at Mass Maritime had to recite at attention when querried by an upper classman, “Young Man, What’s Your Function.” Again, sorry for the hijack, but I thought I found a former alunmi in Snnipe70E. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/158 "2017-06-25T13:43:45Z")
Thank you **Navigator66**. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/159 "2017-06-25T17:03:04Z")
> [@Navigator66](#): > > Translation for “What Exit”: > > Buzzards Bay = Mass. Maritime Academy > Theta Pi Sigma = Our unofficial frat. = TPS = This Place Sucks. > Youngie = Plebe at Mass. Maritime > 72D = Graduated 1972 as Deck Officer > CMA = California Maritime Academy > 70E = Graduated 1970 as Engineering Officer > A Sir, Young Sir, … = What plebes at Mass Maritime had to recite at attention when querried by an upper classman, “Young Man, What’s Your Function.” > > Again, sorry for the hijack, but I thought I found a former alunmi in Snnipe70E. When I attended CMA it was a 3 year program. We had to respond an upper classman "Sir Midshipman “last Name” asking for your permission to \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, " and what ever the request was. like “Sit and eat at your table.” We did not have any unofficial frat. Just referred to Vallejo as the Arm Pit of the Nation. And the Training Ship Golden Bear, TSGB. As the training Ship Goony Bird. Now it is 4 years and to get accreditation they are no longer Midshipmen but Cadets. Dumb. I had forgotten about Buzzards Bay = Mass. Maritime Academy. But we use to make comments about the Academy and Buzzards because they lived in the trees near the gun range and circled the Academy at night. Thought I had also found an old alumni. So now we return you to you normal program. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149/160 "2017-06-26T14:13:18Z")
According to this latest report on Reuters, the destroyer ignored warning signals nor did it take any evasive action before it collided with the container ship. [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-exclusive-idUSKBN19H13C](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-exclusive-idUSKBN19H13C) > [@](#): > > In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship’s captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald “suddenly” steamed on to a course to cross its path. > > The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula’s report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/navy-destroyer-fitzgerald-collides-with-merchant-ship/789149.md?page=9)