Nazi Germany: How Much Did the Average German Know?

[panamajack]

kmg365, I’m hoping that your impressions about the Dachau memorial site were formed from a visit a long time ago, as it’s certainly at odds with anything that is there now. You can visit the Official Website to see for yourself the information they give out now.

And if you don’t want to believe “those sneaky Germans” consider that the US Holocaust Memorial Museum even says, “There is no credible evidence that the gas chamber in Barrack X was used to murder human beings.” The general opinion seems to be that the US Army was mistaken in thinking people were being gassed wholesale as in the death camps. They found a fully functional gas chamber, and a pile of bodies(warning - graphic photo) in the mortuary, and assumed the most logical(!) conclusion. Note that the “gas chamber” from your quote (“the American Army released a photograph which clearly showed that a gas chamber was in operation there.”) is one of the disinfection chambers (for the effects of those who had been murdered).

I just want to say there’s something very very very wrong when the first thing that turns up on a Google search of “Dachau KZ” has “behavior inappropriate sexual” on the preview line.

[kmg365]

@panamajack

kmg365, I’m hoping that your impressions about the Dachau memorial site were formed from a visit a long time ago, as it’s certainly at odds with anything that is there now.

Panamajack, I visited the Dachau memorial in the summer of 1990, so yes, it was quite a long time ago, and I’m certainly willing to concede that the exhibits may have changed since then.

@panamajack

And if you don’t want to believe “those sneaky Germans” consider that the US Holocaust Memorial Museum even says, “There is no credible evidence that the gas chamber in Barrack X was used to murder human beings.” The general opinion seems to be that the US Army was mistaken in thinking people were being gassed wholesale as in the death camps.

The USHM’s information is obviously based on the exhibits at the Dachau memorial. IMO, the USHM needs to update its information to reflect thenew information based on testimony from survivors who state that the SS did use some – but not all – of the gas chambers in Baracke X at Dachau to kill people. To wit:

From Dachau Scrapbook:"When I visited Dachau in May 2001, there was a sign in the gas chamber which informed tourists that the room was never used for gassing. In May 2003, that sign had been removed and a new sign at the south end of the gas chamber building read as follows:

“Baracke X erected May 1942 to April 1943. It was to serve both as a killing facility and to remove the dead, but the gas chamber in the middle of the building was not used for mass murder. Survivors have testified that the SS did, however, murder individual prisoners and small groups here using poison gas.”

Also, according to this link, the Dachau memorial reversed itself regarding its former position that none of the gas chambers were ever used to kill people, by stating in a new display in May of 2003 that one of the gas chambers at Dachau was used to “kill a few prisoners” To wit:

From the Dachau ScrapbookThe Official Report of the US Seventh Army claimed that 29,138 Jews had been brought to Dachau and murdered in five gas chambers there between June 20, 1944 and November 23, 1944. Contrary to this claim, displays at the Dachau Memorial Site in May 2001 said that four of these gas chambers were used only to disinfect clothing with Zyklon-B and that the fifth gas chamber at Dachau was never used or put into operation. In May 2003 a new display in the Dachau Museum claimed that one of the five gas chambers, the one that is disguised as a shower room, was used to kill a few prisoners. Zyklon-B was used by the Nazis for delousing the clothing and also for killing the Jews in the gas chambers.

While falling short of fully admitting to have been a fully operational Vernichtungslager, I think the above concession made by the Dachau memorial itself is sufficient enough to quiet down all those naysayers who insist that no prisoners or Jews were ever gassed at Dachau.

[kmg365]

@tadc

When did you visit? I went in '02, and what you describe is very different from what I saw.

Fair enough, I can accept that, as I was there in the summer of 1990.

@tadc

You seem to imply that the placards were only in German… also not true on my visit.

Naw – I just said that the German-language exhibit explanations at the memorial differed from the U.S. Army and Allied tribunals reports used as evidence at Nuernberg…

@tadc

There was definitely no denial that the ovens were used. They described in detail how additional ovens were built to keep up with demand.

Well I don’t know which oven you were looking at, but when I was there, there was a placard in front of a bank of ovens that stated that these ovens were never used by the nazis. I found such claims to be disingenuous b/c the ovens were in fact used after liberation to dispose of the remaining bodies in order to contain the typhus outbreak.

@tadc

It was definitely not sanitized or dumbed down… if it had been any more explicit I would have been physically ill, and I am not a squeamish person.

If that’s the case, I recommend that you never visit the USHM or Yad Washem. Those exhibits are not for the feint of heart as they aren’t sugar-coated or rated-G like Dachau is. No, you definitely shouldn’t go there, lest you get “physically ill” or “squeamish”, and we wouldn’t want that to happen, would we?

@tadc

Sounds to me like you’re somewhat biased on this subject.

No. I just have an opinion, that’s all.

@tadc

And some of your “facts” are in direct contradiction with my observations, which calls into question the rest of your input.

Some of your “observatons” are in direct contradiction to my facts, which calls into question your sanity and the rest of your mental fitness.

[tadc]

@kmg365

Fair enough, I can accept that, as I was there in the summer of 1990.

Apparently you can’t, as evidenced by the rest of your post.

…which calls into question your sanity and the rest of your mental fitness.

You just admitted that you haven’t visited the place in over a decade, and it’s been pretty well established that the exibits have changed dramatically since then.

The forum for baseless personal attacks is that way. Please move along…