# Nazi Gold Train? Place Your Bets **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918 "2015-09-04T17:21:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/1 "2015-09-04T17:21:56Z")
I haven’t seen this discussed anywhere here, but there’s been a lot of talk about 2 guys claiming to have discovered a “Nazi Gold Train”, i.e. a train where Nazis are rumored to have buried a train full of gold treasure at the end of the war. There have apparently long been rumors about something like this, but this time it got some additional credence based on their claim to have some sort of photographic evidence, to the point where Poland’s Culture Minister (not necessarily an expert on such matters, but still …) said he was 99% sure it was legit. Gold seekers have flocked to the area from all over, but the army - which itself is allegedly involved in the search - is said to be blocking it off for fear that it’s mined. Here’s one of many recent articles on the subject: [Nazi 'gold' train: Men go on TV to claim Poland find - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34153858) So the question is: is it for real or not? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/2 "2015-09-04T17:29:03Z")
There is a thread in GD I think but yours puts a new spin on the question. I dont know why people think there is a Nazi gold hoard. The government spent every cent on the war effort. Also, Hitler ordered no one to leave Berlin without specific orders. Is there a record of such an order in the captured files? Lots of nazi gold ended up in Sweden in trade for iron ore that enabled Germany to wage war. (Hijack: Why didnt any nation try to recover monetary damage from the Swedes for profiting of the war?) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/3 "2015-09-04T17:30:04Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=765640&highlight=nazi+gold](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=765640&highlight=nazi+gold) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/4 "2015-09-04T17:31:54Z")
I suppose the theory is that this is looted gold that never made it to Berlin to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/5 "2015-09-04T17:38:52Z")
The most recent news reports ([one typical cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/11843875/Polish-soldiers-seal-off-Nazi-gold-train-location-as-finders-reveal-their-clear-evidence.html)) claim that ground-penetrating radar shows an underground train “with something in it”. Obviously that doesn’t prove that the ‘something’ is treasure, but it does raise the question of how and why there is a train underground, and why it’s in the approximate location rumoured for years to be the site of the “Nazi Gold Train”. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/6 "2015-09-04T17:39:56Z")
But the train is located in Upper Silesia…in the far southeast of what used to be Germany. The geography should be a hint. The Polish government was in Warsaw,to the north and fell to the Russians in late 1944 iirc. There would have been no trouble putting any loot on a train straight to Berlin. If the nazis wanted to hide the loot because they knew the war was lost why would they hide it closer to the oncoming Soviets? Wouldnt the Alps or Switzerland make more sense? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/7 "2015-09-04T17:43:02Z")
Towards the end of the war, a lot of Nazis at all levels of government started thinking of their own post-war interests. IOW, it’s possible that whoever had control over it at that time wasn’t particularly interested in sending it to Berlin, and preferred hiding it in a place where they and their accomplices could retrieve it from after the war. > [@KarlGauss](#): > > The most recent news reports ([one typical cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/11843875/Polish-soldiers-seal-off-Nazi-gold-train-location-as-finders-reveal-their-clear-evidence.html)) claim that ground-penetrating radar shows an underground train “with something in it”. > > Obviously that doesn’t prove that the ‘something’ is treasure, but it does raise the question of how and why there is a train underground, and why it’s in the approximate location rumoured for years to be the site of the “Nazi Gold Train”. Assuming that these claims are themselves for real. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/8 "2015-09-04T17:45:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Towards the end of the war, a lot of Nazis at all levels of government started thinking of their own post-war interests. IOW, it’s possible that whoever had control over it at that time wasn’t particularly interested in sending it to Berlin, and preferred hiding it in a place where they and their accomplices could retrieve it from after the war.Assuming that these claims are themselves for real. The would have been smart enough to send it away from the Soviets. There was no going back to territory lost to them. Also, the native German population was ethnically cleansed from the area immediately after the war. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/9 "2015-09-04T17:47:57Z")
You have to know how many options they had for hiding something of that sort. The Nazi regime wasn’t going to be returning to that area, but that didn’t mean individual Germans couldn’t attempt to return and dig it up. Worth a shot anyway if no better ideas available. (I’m not sure what your point was about subsequent ethnic cleansing.) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/10 "2015-09-04T17:53:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You have to know how many options they had for hiding something of that sort. > > The Nazi regime wasn’t going to be returning to that area, but that didn’t mean individual Germans couldn’t attempt to return and dig it up. Worth a shot anyway if no better ideas available. > > (I’m not sure what your point was about subsequent ethnic cleansing.) That Germans werent welcome to come back. Again, if such a train existed for the purpose of hiding gold there would likely be a record of the train and a record of the cargo…German bureaucracy and such. There were factories in the area built into the hills; the train is likely related to them. The Germans wanted to hide these as they were operated by slave labor and thousands died there. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/11 "2015-09-04T17:57:08Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > That Germans werent welcome to come back. But they didn’t know ahead of time that this would happen. > [@](#): > > Again, if such a train existed for the purpose of hiding gold there would likely be a record of the train and a record of the cargo…German bureaucracy and such. If it was in the interests of whoever hid it to keep records. The premise here is that it was deliberately hidden by the looters for their own purposes, and it wouldn’t have been in their interest to keep records. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/12 "2015-09-04T18:06:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But they didn’t know ahead of time that this would happen. > > If it was in the interests of whoever hid it to keep records. The premise here is that it was deliberately hidden by the looters for their own purposes, and it wouldn’t have been in their interest to keep records. They would have known it: > **[World War II evacuation and expulsion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion)** > > Mass evacuation, forced displacement, expulsion, and deportation of millions of people took place across most countries involved in World War II. The Second World War caused the movement of the largest number of people in the shortest period of time in history. A number of these phenomena were categorised as violations of fundamental human values and norms by the Nuremberg Tribunal after the war ended. The mass movement of people – most of them refugees – had either been caused by the hostilit > [@](#): > > 1940 to 1941: The Soviets deported hundreds of thousands of Polish citizens, most in four mass waves. The accepted figure was over 1.5 million.[4][5][6][7][8][9][10] The most conservative figures[11][12][13] use recently found NKVD documents showing 309,000[14][15][16] to 381,220.[16][17] The Soviets didn’t recognise ethnic minorities as Polish citizens,[15][18] some of the figures are based on those given an amnesty rather than deported[5][15] and not everyone was eligible for the amnesty[19] therefore the new figures are considered too low.[13][15][20][21] The original figures were: February 1940[22][23] over 220,000;[9][24] April around 315,000;[9][24][25] June–July between 240,000[9] to 400,000;[24] June, 1941, 200,000[26] to 300,000.[9] The premise would make a great movie but its almost impossible the way the German government worked and how would the conspirators have gotten access to rolling stock in the last few months of the war when every train was needed for the war effort? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/13 "2015-09-04T19:31:48Z")
Everyone would want to believe this it’s a great story, maybe even a tourism angle in the years ahead. I like that they had geo-phys images an the Culture Minister talked about the train and the platforms you could see in the images … It’s a sting - has to be. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/14 "2015-09-05T02:09:52Z")
I went with the first option although I doubt the “treasure” (if any) is actual gold. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/15 "2015-09-05T03:40:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Lots of nazi gold ended up in Sweden in trade for iron ore that enabled Germany to wage war. (Hijack: Why didnt any nation try to recover monetary damage from the Swedes for profiting of the war?) Many people ( particularly Americans [_Shrub: Those Who Are Not With Us Are Against Us_] but also commies and their fellow-travellers ) _really_ don’t understand the philosophical, let alone the Law of Nations, concepts of Neutrality. It doesn’t mean paying compensation for having traded with, or even for having been in agreement with, whichever side lost. American corporations and administrations have sold a _lot_ of weapons around the world, even to people they had nothing in common with ( and occasionally which weapons would end up being pointed at Americans ); didn’t mean their profiting was a sin. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/16 "2015-09-05T03:48:13Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Many people ( particularly Americans [_Shrub: Those Who Are Not With Us Are Against Us_] but also commies and their fellow-travellers ) _really_ don’t understand the philosophical, let alone the Law of Nations, concepts of Neutrality. > > It doesn’t mean paying compensation for having traded with, or even for having been in agreement with, whichever side lost. > > American corporations and administrations have sold a _lot_ of weapons around the world, even to people they had nothing in common with ( and occasionally which weapons would end up being pointed at Americans ); didn’t mean their profiting was a sin. My criticism is more based on their cowardice. They capitulated so the Germans wouldnt invade them. It makes me a lot more proud to be part Norwegian. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/17 "2015-09-05T05:29:17Z")
Indeed. Knut Hamsun was a great writer. However, the Swedes weren’t particularly frightened of, nor fond of, the nazis — despite their own repellent eugenics copied from the masters of eugenic madness ( the Americans ) — Germany couldn’t have held Sweden, who had and still have, a redoubtable army, not to mention arms industry. They were, like most of Europe east of the Elbe, scared of the bolsheviks though, and they placed their bets accordingly. Norway did not volunteer to be invaded, and Hitler only did so because the British were doing so first. Fun Fact: the only initial violent resistance to the German invasion came from Vidkun Quisling and his NS mob. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/18 "2015-09-05T05:34:31Z")
I don’t think it’s there. In this life, you either find a Nazi gold train, or you don’t find a Nazi gold train. I don’t see a Nazi gold train, so I don’t think it is there. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/19 "2015-09-05T05:45:20Z")
Von Schrödinger’s Express. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918/20 "2015-09-05T08:03:02Z")
A nice story for the summer silly season, but pure bunkum. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-gold-train-place-your-bets/729918.md?page=2)