# Nazi Lobbyist in Washington **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815 "2012-04-15T03:11:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/1 "2012-04-15T03:11:37Z")
We live in a strange country. Our fathers and grandfathers fought these filthy b\*stards on the beaches of Normandy, The Battle of Bulge and right into the Fuehrer’s Kehlsteinhaus. We liberated the camps where this vermin massacred millions of Poles, Czechs, and Jews. The Nazi even killed their own mentally and physically handicapped people. Now we welcome the monsters into the very halls of Washington DC. The Nazi Party is outlawed in Germany and it most certainly should be in the capital of Democracy. One guy may not be a lot. Would you go to bed with a rattlesnake under the sheets? Hey, it’s own one little snake. I don’t have the time to look it up. But, wasn’t the Nazi party made illegal after Pearl Harbor? How did they manage to get the law changed? [http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2012/04/14/11193302-swastika-on-the-ballot-american-nazi-party-gets-its-first-lobbyist?lite](http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/14/11193302-swastika-on-the-ballot-american-nazi-party-gets-its-first-lobbyist?lite) > [@](#): > > The American Nazi Party has its first lobbyist in Washington, according to reports. > > The Hill newspaper, which covers Congress when it is in session, said John Bowles had registered with House and Senate offices as a representative of the “ANP,” according to disclosure records. > The records said that he planned to lobby on “political rights and ballot access laws,” and other issues such as civil rights, healthcare and immigration. > > “You know, congressmen and congresswomen have always been telling the American public that they were open to other viewpoints,” Bowles told The Hill. “I’m going to see if they were sincere about that, or I’m going to call their bluff.” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/2 "2012-04-15T03:15:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Nazi Party is outlawed in Germany and it most certainly should be in the capital of Democracy. Are you saying we’re too weak to beat them fairly? Are you actually afraid of those simpering little pissants? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/3 "2012-04-15T03:17:50Z")
I’ll expand further: We live in a country built on laws, and those laws are built on principles. Those principles are what our ancestors fought for on Normandy and Iwo Jima, not just words and names and flags. Those principles are what we uphold when we allow everyone, even the most odious, a chance to fight fairly in the political arena without fear or favoritism. Those principles are more important than any Nazi could ever be, then, now, or at any point in the future. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/4 "2012-04-15T03:20:33Z")
I’m not afraid of them at all. I have read extensively on the rise of the Nazi’s in Germany. They were a fringe party at first. Nothing to worry about. Their rise to power took everyone by surprise. The German’s learned their lesson. Any Nazi symbols or organizations are illegal in Germany. Never the less they have seen a dramatic rise in extremists ever since merging with East Germany. They’re trying hard to at least control their growth. Having a sister party in America that can send money and support doesn’t help what the German government is trying to fight. I know we’ve had Nazi’s in the U.S. since the 1930’s. They largely disappeared during WWII. I was under the impression it was still a banned party here. Apparently it’s not any more. I know there’s a bunch of different extremist groups in the U.S. We had a big one in Arkansas in the 90’s that finally got closed down. Thank goodness there doesn’t seem to be any unity amongst these various groups. Each one seems to be lead by one guy or group that builds a compound for his followers. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/5 "2012-04-15T03:23:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I don’t have the time to look it up. But, wasn’t the Nazi party made illegal after Pearl Harbor? The references to Illinois Nazis in the movie “The Blues Brothers” weren’t just weird jokes. They threatened to march in [Skokie, Illinois in the late '70s](http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/strwhe.html). We allow Communist and Socialist political parties, we allow the Ku Klux Klan, and as long as they follow the laws of this country, we should - distasteful as they are - allow a Nazi party to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/6 "2012-04-15T03:29:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m not afraid of them at all. I have read extensively on the rise of the Nazi’s in Germany. They were a fringe party at first. Nothing to worry about. Their rise to power took everyone by surprise. Their rise to power was predicated on street gangs and the implicit support of a military and business class terrified of the prospect of a large-scale Communist takeover, as had happened on smaller scales in specific cities in Germany already. Weimar Germany was fundamentally different from, and less stable than, how America is now. > [@](#): > > The German’s learned their lesson. Any Nazi symbols or organizations are illegal in Germany. So they taught their extremists to use different symbols. And they have. And they are doing so now. Not the lesson you had in mind. > [@](#): > > Never the less they have seen a dramatic rise in extremists ever since merging with East Germany. They’re trying hard to at least control their growth. Having a sister party in America that can send money and support doesn’t help what the German government is trying to fight. If they’re supporting criminal organizations that makes them a criminal organization, which is something entirely different from a political party. _If_ they are doing so. > [@](#): > > I know we’ve had Nazi’s in the U.S. since the 1930’s. They largely disappeared during WWII. I was under the impression it was still a banned party here. Apparently it’s not any more. It was only banned during the war to the extent the government may have considered it treasonous to openly support the enemy. That’s all. > [@](#): > > Thank goodness there doesn’t seem to be any unity amongst these various groups. There’s a reason for that: They can’t convince their followers that the established government is a big enough threat. Why? Because the established government isn’t going after them in a big way, like, say, by banning their political party. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/7 "2012-04-15T03:33:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Nazi Party is outlawed in Germany and it most certainly should be in the capital of Democracy. The First Amendment says otherwise. Essentially, it means people have a constitutional right to be assholes. The guy registered as a lobbyist. Fine. It’s not like anyone that matters is going to actually listen to him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/8 "2012-04-15T04:44:29Z")
We taught them a lesson in 1918, and they’ve hardly bothered us since then… Tom Lehrer on Germany What a bunch of loons. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/9 "2012-04-15T04:50:26Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Nazi Party is outlawed in Germany and it most certainly should be in the capital of Democracy. The capital of Democracy doesn’t ban political parties. That’s part of the definition. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/10 "2012-04-15T08:10:21Z")
Personally, I like it when Nazis operate out in the open. I want to see who this guy’s friends are. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/11 "2012-04-15T09:07:03Z")
Were they ever banned in the US? I don’t think anyone’s answered that question directly. My cursory research says no, they weren’t, although they’ve had periods where they were very, very quiet. OP, I’ve got to ask: what do you think would change for this gentleman if we did ban the Nazi party (or the Neo-Nazi party, or whatever)? Do you think he’d suddenly like brown people? Do you think he couldn’t lobby for whatever he’s lobbying for if he wasn’t a member of the Nazi party? Do you think he couldn’t recruit other hateful idiots to work with him if he couldn’t use the word “Nazi” in his brochures? In other words, what’s the point of banning the party? What would it actually change? (I have the same questions for Germany, where it actually has been banned. What’s the difference? Banning a party doesn’t suddenly make assholes into nice people, does it?) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/12 "2012-04-15T09:23:34Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Were they ever banned in the US? So being an open member of the American Nazi Party during WWII wouldn’t have been considered treason? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/13 "2012-04-15T09:32:55Z")
I don’t care for several reasons: 1. As tempting as it is to say “make it illegal” I don’t want to shut down opposing viewpoints, no matter how vile. That makes it ever so much easier for a (hypothetical) particularly vile Congress to opt to shut down MY viewpoints. 2. It’s the **Nazi** party, by **name**. Nazis are cartoon villains by now, anybody who listens to him (in a political sense, he may be a really good botanist or something so I won’t say listens to him at all) is pretty much insane. 3. It’s better to keep them out in the open. Otherwise they can rebrand themselves. Again, the Nazis are cartoon villains, they’ll never get traction – I can’t say the same about some unheard of party that just so happens to be spouting similar rhetoric to the Nazis. Even better, it keeps them in the spotlight which in turn keeps them from acting without scruples from the shadows. Having them lobbying Washington is much better than having them burning synagogues to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/14 "2012-04-15T09:43:36Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > So being an open member of the American Nazi Party during WWII wouldn’t have been considered treason? No idea. Would it? ETA: And if so, is that the same thing as “banning” the Party? ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/15 "2012-04-15T10:05:24Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Were they ever banned in the US? I don’t think anyone’s answered that question directly. My cursory research says no, they weren’t, although they’ve had periods where they were very, very quiet. > > OP, I’ve got to ask: what do you think would change for this gentleman if we did ban the Nazi party (or the Neo-Nazi party, or whatever)? Do you think he’d suddenly like brown people? Do you think he couldn’t lobby for whatever he’s lobbying for if he wasn’t a member of the Nazi party? Do you think he couldn’t recruit other hateful idiots to work with him if he couldn’t use the word “Nazi” in his brochures? In other words, what’s the point of banning the party? What would it actually change? > > (I have the same questions for Germany, where it actually has been banned. What’s the difference? Banning a party doesn’t suddenly make assholes into nice people, does it?) In Germany, we actually have several parties that don’t call themselves Nazi parties outright (since the actual NSDAP is indeed banned), but are nevertheless very sympathetic to their ideas and are very careful about wording their hateful ideology to avoid crossing the line into breaking the laws. There have been several attempts to outlaw the most radical and outspoken party among them, and you are right, if banned their members would not suddenly become nice people. However, it is very painful to watch these dickheads get elected into local and regional governments (even if they then go on to make fools of themselves), and I’m not opposed to disbanding the structures in which they work. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/16 "2012-04-15T10:40:11Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > “You know, congressmen and congresswomen have always been telling the American public that they were open to other viewpoints,” Bowles told The Hill. “I’m going to see if they were sincere about that, or I’m going to call their bluff.” So in other words, he’s basically just trolling Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/17 "2012-04-15T10:48:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Now we welcome the monsters into the very halls of Washington DC. > > The Nazi Party is outlawed in Germany and it most certainly should be in the capital of Democracy. Better the bigots be out in the open than crawling around in secret. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/18 "2012-04-15T11:14:14Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > So being an open member of the American Nazi Party during WWII wouldn’t have been considered treason? The American Nazi Party was founded in 1959, so apparently it wasn’t an issue (as a practical matter, I imagine being an open supporter of the Nazi’s in or immedietly after WWII would be a pretty good way to get lynched, so the fact that it didn’t exist then isn’t really surprising). Given that we locked up people in WWII purely for being Japanese, I imagine being a member of a hypothetical Nazi party would’ve landed you in prison. But I don’t think any such “ban” would survive a court challenge after the war. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/19 "2012-04-15T11:30:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > No idea. Would it? Well, as per the Constitution: > [@](#): > > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. I think the ‘adhering to their Enemies’ might be broad enough to stick. However, we have a confounding factor: The organization called the American Nazi Party was founded in 1959 by George Lincoln Rockwell. The closest we had to an explicit Nazi party on our shores before WWII was the German-American Bund, which _was_ directly linked to the Nazi regime in Germany and was, in fact, knocked out by the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) beginning in 1938; by the beginning of our involvement in the war, its leader was in an internment camp in Texas and, after the war, he was deported to West Germany, who imprisoned him until 1951. [Who was the would-be Führer of America? Fritz Kuhn.](http://knol.google.com/k/fritz-kuhn) And now you know… the _idiot_ of the story. > [@](#): > > And if so, is that the same thing as “banning” the Party? Effectively. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815/20 "2012-04-15T11:37:24Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > However, it is very painful to watch these dickheads get elected into local and regional governments (even if they then go on to make fools of themselves), and I’m not opposed to disbanding the structures in which they work. Reminds me of something: [ > [@A Man For All Seasons](#): > > ``` > WILLIAM ROPER: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law! > > SIR THOMAS MORE: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? > > ROPER: I’d cut down every law in England to do that! > > MORE: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake! > > ``` ]([A Man for All Seasons (1966) - Quotes - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060665/quotes)) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-lobbyist-in-washington/618815.md?page=2)