# Nazi Rune As CPAC Stage- Coincidence Or Not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 28, 2021, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927 "2021-02-28T03:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/81 "2021-03-01T23:04:19Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > He ‘accidentally’ scheduled a rally on Juneteenth. He reversed a policy Michelle Obama had put in place to bring healthier food into schools, but he accidentally did it on her birthday. The Stand Back and Stand Down thing I still think is something said by accident because he can’t think on his feet well and has a real problem being told what to do (and he had two people telling him to denounce the proud boys). But it’s just another accidentally racist thing he did. None of these things are accidents. Trump himself isn’t bright enough—and probably not intrinsically racist enough, although it is clear he has a persistent strain of casual bigotry in his personality core—to think them up on his own, but he has surrounded himself with advisors including outright conspiranoists like Michael Flynn and Sydney Powell who clearly are, and are quite clearly feeding these lines to him to repeat like the myna bird he is. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/82 "2021-03-01T23:07:02Z")
So far the only version of the symbol I’ve seen is like the one you’ve shown, occasionally with the feet having tapered ends. If we were to take that symbol as the floor plan of the stage, there’s also a horizontal segment connecting the bottom of the feet, their “heels” if you will. For me that was enough to conclude it was _probably_ a coincidence. Given the organization under discussion, I don’t think it’s a reach to conclude that it was deliberate; I just don’t personally believe it was. Wouldn’t take much to change my mind, though. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/83 "2021-03-01T23:07:48Z")
At this point everyone is just speculating. While I agree that most or all of the CPAC crowd are crazies, and therefore I wouldn’t consider any sort of crazy acts to be implausible, I do find it odd that they would intentionally design something like this and then vehemently deny that it had any intentional symbolism. And as for all those people who approved the design and “obviously” must have seen the symbolism, please see my picture upthread of the Navy building shaped exactly like a swastika. I’m pretty sure the architects must have built a model of what was to be a multi-million-dollar military facility. Did no one ever see it from the top? And yet, there it is. Honestly, I think if the CPAC crowd were trying to make some kind of symbolic point, they would have subtly worked it into their permanent logo rather than into the shape of a stage. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/84 "2021-03-01T23:13:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I do find it odd that they would intentionally design something like this and then vehemently deny that it had any intentional symbolism. That’s how gaslighting works. “What? You found your lost cell phone in the refrigerator? Gosh, I don’t know _how_ that could have happened.” They take deliberate action that everyone in their orbit will recognize, and they blandly deny taking that deliberate action to everyone outside the orbit. It’s crazy-making. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/85 "2021-03-01T23:22:07Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > They take deliberate action that everyone in their orbit will recognize, and they blandly deny taking that deliberate action to everyone outside the orbit. It’s crazy-making. And like gaslighting, it makes the person who speaks up look as if they don’t have credibility or are ‘reaching’ to find a reason to criticize. In fact, between this and that truly awful rendition of _The Star-Spangled Banner_, I suspect they’re actually feeding out seeming trivialities for their opponents to criticize specifically to divert from and disabuse their actual agenda. This is exactly what Trump did for four years in the White House, tweeting out nonsense that drove the headline news cycle while his administration perpetrated cruelties unimaginable by the standards of normal governance. If you play the clown, everybody laughs at the kazoo and fails to look for the knife tucked up the sleeve. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/86 "2021-03-01T23:27:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Absolute dog whistle. Except that the audience couldnt see that shape from their seats. Now if it had been a rune, sure. But it’s a a odd shape for a stage. On purpose as a nazi rune? Well, to be honest, as a dog whistle there aint one person in a million that would recognize that as a nazi rune. If there are such things as political dog whistles, then the faithful are supposed to recognize them. And they aint that smart. I know Viking/Norse runes a bit and I know that the rune is, but I dont remember ever seeing it as a nazi sign- and i am also up on German uniforms of WW2. Maybe, but I have doubts. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/87 "2021-03-01T23:29:29Z")
Kindly read the article I linked to in my OP. The Odal rune with wings is not only a Nazi symbol, it is EXCLUSIVELY a Nazi symbol. Those wings appear nowhere in all the Viking artifacts known. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/88 "2021-03-01T23:32:04Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I do find it odd that they would intentionally design something like this and then vehemently deny that it had any intentional symbolism. Without claiming to know definitively about this one example . . . doing something and vehemently denying it was done has been the prime Republican m.o. for the last few years at least. You might as well state “I do find it odd that they would intentionally ignore COVID warnings and then vehemently deny believing it (while also vehemently accusing Dems of killing people).” Or “I do find it odd that Republicans would actively cater to white supremacy in public and then vehemently deny that they’ve done so.” It’s nonsense all the way down; they’ve cultivated a state of chaos where truth is meaningless as cover for nefarious action, and to protect power. This either happened on purpose, or it was a “happy accident”. Either way, Republicans get to live two simultaneous truths about the issue while still reaping the benefits (giving voice to the Nazi wing of the party, and pissing off Democrats) of having used Nazi symbology at their meeting. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/89 "2021-03-01T23:33:12Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Let’s not forget that one of Trump’s aides wore a Nazi medal to his inauguration. Read your cite. The Order was founded in 1920, before Nazis. Now yes, some Hungarian Arrow cross members were in that order. It’s not 100% clean by any means. But it is NOT a “Nazi medal”. > **[Order of Vitéz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Vit%C3%A9z)** > > The Order of Vitéz (Hungarian: Vitézi Rend; frequently spelled in English as 'Vitez') is a Hungarian order of merit which was founded in 1920. It was awarded as a state honour from 1920 to 1944. > During World War II, many members of the Hungarian government and military were members of the Order; as such, members were involved in both contributing to the Holocaust as well as leading efforts against it. The United States Department of State lists the Order of Vitéz as having been "under the direc... _After the Nazi coup d’état, the second highest ranking officer of the Order of Vitéz next to Miklós Horthy, vitéz Igmándy-Hegyessy Géza suspended the activity of the Order of Vitéz, to demonstrate that the Order would not cooperate with the Arrow Cross Party - he was also [deported to a concentration camp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_of_concentration_camp_inmates_to_Tyrol).[[29]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Vit%C3%A9z#cite_note-29)_ > **[Sebastian Gorka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Gorka#The_Historical_Order_of_Vit%C3%A9z)** > > Sebastian Lukács Gorka (Hungarian: Gorka Sebestyén Lukács; born October 22, 1970) is a media host and commentator, currently affiliated with Salem Radio Network and NewsMax TV, and a United States government official. He served in the first Trump administration as a deputy assistant to the president for seven months, from January until August 2017. In the second Trump administration, he has served as a deputy assistant to the president and senior director for counterterrorism since January 20... But wearing that in America has very bad optics. Not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/90 "2021-03-01T23:36:18Z")
With wings, sure, maybe, if you say so. By no means am I saying they were trying to show the original Norse Rune. I think it is just a coincidence. But I dont think anyone there is smart enuf to recognize that as a nazi symbol. Too obscure. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/91 "2021-03-01T23:39:52Z")
Yeah. This was a coincidence, too: > **[Trump tweets image depicting Clinton, cash and the Star of David](https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-star-david-225058)** > > Visuals matter—and one shared on Trump's Twitter account on Saturday quickly drew criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/92 "2021-03-01T23:44:03Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > None of these things are accidents. Yes, if I didn’t make that clear, that’s what I meant. There’s a lot of ‘accidents’ and ‘coincidences’ (that clearly aren’t either) that have happened over the last 5 years. > [@wolfpup](#): > > At this point everyone is just speculating. It’s not like it’s ever going to show up in writing, so unless there’s a recording from the planning process or a designer googled ‘odal rune’ on his computer or someone involved it in comes forward, we’re not likely to ever have anything beyond speculation. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Honestly, I think if the CPAC crowd were trying to make some kind of symbolic point, they would have subtly worked it into their permanent logo rather than into the shape of a stage. CPAC was formed almost 50 years ago. Long before Trump had anything to do with it. However, I have no idea if this was their original logo or if/when it came about. I can’t remember even hearing of CPAC before about a week ago. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Except that the audience couldnt see that shape from their seats. Like the fighter jets flying over the super bowl even if it’s at an enclosed dome, perhaps it wasn’t meant for the handful of people at the event but the millions that would see the pictures later on. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/93 "2021-03-01T23:46:05Z")
To quote the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect on Gorka wearing the medal: “How many ducks in the Trump White House must walk, talk and quack Anti-Semitically before our country wakes up and sees the greater problem?” it told NBC News in a statement. “Who among us wears a medal of a Nazi-sympathetic organization to remember loved ones?” > **[A Nazi-linked group was "proud" after Trump aide wore its medal](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sebastian-gorka-made-nazi-linked-vitezi-rend-proud-wearing-its-n742851)** > > Controversy has swirled around Sebastian Gorka, one of President Trump's top counterterrorism advisers, ever since he attended the president's Jan. 20 inaugural ball wearing the honorary medal of Hungarian nationalist organization Vitezi Rend. NBC... ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/94 "2021-03-01T23:49:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > On purpose as a nazi rune? Well, to be honest, as a dog whistle there aint one person in a million that would recognize that as a nazi rune. If there are such things as political dog whistles, then the faithful are supposed to recognize them. There are about 200 White Supremacist groups in the US. Since they are among Trump’s most militant supporters, they may be worth whistling to. I don’t think the CPAC leadership sponsored this or knew about it in advance. However, I wouldn’t rule out some low-level people sneaking it in. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/95 "2021-03-01T23:53:19Z")
I concede that is possible. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/96 "2021-03-01T23:55:09Z")
RE ‘Can’t see it from the seats’ The same shape was done in the lighting above the stage. That was easily visible to those in attendance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/97 "2021-03-01T23:56:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I don’t think the CPAC leadership sponsored this or knew about it in advance. However, I wouldn’t rule out some low-level people sneaking it in. That’s where I’m at now, and I find it more on the likely side that it was done with surreptitious deliberation. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/98 "2021-03-02T00:02:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except that the audience couldnt see that shape from their seats. Way more people are going to be watching video of the event than are sitting in the auditorium. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/99 "2021-03-02T00:27:32Z")
That response by Schlapp is ridiculous. No, the stage doesn’t look slightly like the inverse of the symbol. It’s the exact same shape. If this were accidental, then as soon as it was pointed out to them, they would have changed it. The absolute most charitable possible interpretation is that they were OK with being mistaken for Nazis. As for that swastika-shaped building complex, I’m not sure how the designers overlooked that, but it’s at least possible for that to be an accident. When designing a building, you want most of the rooms to have windows, which means footprints shaped like long rectangles. And when designing a complex of buildings, you want those windows to look out on something other than another building right next to it, which means open courtyards between the buildings. If it weren’t for the unfortunate symbolism, the swastika shape would be a good shape for that purpose, and there really aren’t all that many other suitable arrangements. If the architect told me that he designed the buildings that way to make open courtyards, well, that’s plausible, because he accomplished that. Here, though, the stage shape serves no practical purpose. The only reason to make the stage (and the lighting above it!) a complicated shape is if that shape is a symbol. It’d be one thing if they made the stage shaped like an elephant, or a five-pointed star, or an eagle, or a dollar sign. But instead, they made the stage at a political event in the shape of the official symbol of a political party. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927/100 "2021-03-02T00:34:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If this were accidental, then as soon as it was pointed out to them, they would have changed it. Which is _exactly_ what [Amazon just did](https://www.tmz.com/2021/03/01/amazon-changes-new-app-icon-hitler-mustache-design-flaw/). > [@Chronos](#): > > As for that swastika-shaped building complex, I’m not sure how the designers overlooked that, but it’s at least possible for that to be an accident Was it build in one shot or do we know if it was added onto over the years? > [@Chronos](#): > > If it weren’t for the unfortunate symbolism, the swastika shape would be a good shape for that purpose One downside I can see is how long it would take to get from the end of one ‘tine’ to the end of another. That could be easily fixed by connecting them (think 4 courtyards). 'Course then someone will argue that it looks like an 88. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazi-rune-as-cpac-stage-coincidence-or-not/933927.md?page=6)