# Nazis win World War 2 and put Swastikas in other countries flags, any historical precedence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2023, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655 "2023-09-25T03:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/1 "2023-09-25T03:42:48Z")
You see this all the time in fiction, Man in the High Castle, Wolfenstein, Hearts of Iron, but basically the Nazis take over America (or other countries) and that countries flag suddenly just has a swastika in it. For America it’s usually the 48/50 stars being reorganized into a Swastika shape but everything else looks the exact same. Does this have any basis in reality, the Nazis changing their occupied territories flags to include Nazi symbols? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/2 "2023-09-25T03:48:38Z")
I don’t know about the Nazis, but other countries did: > **[List of countries and territories with the Union Jack displayed on their flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_with_the_Union_Jack_displayed_on_their_flag)** > > This is a list of current countries and territories with a flag that incorporates the Union Flag. Five Commonwealth nations have the Union Flag on their national flag. The first Commonwealth country to drop the Union Flag was Canada in 1965, after adopting a new national flag. The most recent country to drop the Union Flag from its flag was South Africa in 1994, after adopting a new national flag. The only overseas territory without the Union Flag on its current flag is Gibraltar. > The list a... ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/3 "2023-09-25T04:28:15Z")
Here are flags of Axis powers and their allies: > **[https://i.redd.it/63thqk7oqu771.png](https://i.redd.it/63thqk7oqu771.png)** ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/4 "2023-09-25T10:49:46Z")
Not many of the nation states succeeding the British Empire would previously have been identical nation states with the same boundaries and state structures, and from what I can tell from digging around the internet, whatever flags and symbols used simply disappeared from view once the states/kingdoms in question (e.g., Moghul Empire, Indian princely states, Burmese and African kingdoms) were absorbed into the Empire. Those flags incorporating the Union Flag were wholly new inventions, as are their successors. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/5 "2023-09-25T13:15:21Z")
The hammer and sickle is probably a closer analogy than the Union Jack - many USSR states had it in their flags/national emblems (or allusions to it, like the GDR). Now, you could argue those were all part of the same union, and it’s one of the international symbols of communism, but nevertheless it wouldn’t have been on a lot of those flags without Russian hegemony. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/6 "2023-09-25T15:12:35Z")
Right, the fictional universes mentioned in the OP operate under a notion that the specific cult-ideology of Nazism _and_ the form and structure of the NSDAP as ruling party would be adopted whole hog in the conquered nations, often all the way down to using German titles. That the “nazified” America government would be run by the American Nazi Party and the Bund _as we knew them_ rather than be taken over by, say, the KKK with _their_ affectations. IRL the various fascist/collaborationist movements in non-German lands tended to adopt their own symbols and their own ideological denominations. And as **MrDibble** points out, in the communist countries _not_ absorbed by the USSR you more often got things like the red star, or localized analogues of the H&S for representing labor or revolution (not to mention places like Czechoslovakia, Cuba and Poland where the flag stayed free of party symbols). ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/7 "2023-09-25T15:23:32Z")
Along a similar line it has and is still going on here in the United Sates with state flags showing smybols of the Confederate States of America. > **[7 state flags still have designs with ties to the Confederacy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2023/09/10/confederate-state-flags/)** > > Mississippi became the last state to remove the Confederate battle flag from its state flag in 2020. But seven state flags still have design links to the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/8 "2023-09-25T15:44:32Z")
Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Puppet states are “endowed with the outward symbols of authority”, such as a name, flag, anthem, constitution, law codes, motto and government, but in reality is are appendages of another state which creates, sponsors or otherwise controls the puppet government. It suits both puppets and puppeteers for puppet states to have an outward veneer of legitimacy. The de jure rulers of the puppets are of the nationality of the puppet country, so wish to appear to have their independence, even if they have a similar ideology to their de facto masters. It suits the puppeteers for their puppets to outwardly appear to have their own free choice, rather than it being plainly obvious that the puppets are having the puppeteer’s will imposed from outside. For colonies, and things like the post-confederate states, their rulers would share nationality or identity with the parent state and wish to preserve that through the use of familiar parent state elements in their flags and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/9 "2023-09-25T20:35:07Z")
Another example is the 11 countries with a crescent moon on their flag. This indicates a religious (Muslim) empire in addition to a political one. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/10 "2023-09-25T21:14:15Z")
For that matter, a large number of European flags were originally crusaders’ crosses. The Scandinavian flags still are. The British flag is a combination of the English and Scottish crusaders’ crosses. Many provincial flags still have medieval crosses on them. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/11 "2023-09-26T01:13:04Z")
However all that said, once the Nazi’s have conquered the known world I can easily imagine them ~~demanding~~ encouraging vassal states to put Nazi party stamp as a demonstration of unity and allegiance. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazis-win-world-war-2-and-put-swastikas-in-other-countries-flags-any-historical-precedence/990655/12 "2023-09-26T07:24:35Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > That the “nazified” America government would be run by the American Nazi Party IIRC, Hitler and the Nazi leadership didn’t think much of the local Nazis in their occupied territories, and mostly kept them on a short leash or even out of government altogether. Eventually they seem mostly to have used them to recruit for the Russian Front.