# Nazism Tombstone **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 25, 2001, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705 "2001-07-25T03:42:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NotBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NotBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/1 "2001-07-25T03:42:47Z")
I recently went to visit my Grandfather’s grave. His grave site, as well as many other WWII veterans in the cemetery, consists of a small tombstone with embossed lettering displaying name, date of birth and so on. In a small part of the top left hand corner there is a small Australian Army emblem, The Rising Sun, honouring him as being a serviceman. The cemetery is still in use and as such sees quite a few additions between my visits. On this particular trip, upon arriving I was horrified and literally disgusted to find a new grave, between the ex-servicemen, prominently displaying the Nazi cross. 3 feet high, 3 feet wide and polished granite. Now I respect the rite of an individual or family to (within reason) put what they want on their tombstones, much as my family had the rite to display my grandfather’s Aust Army “Rising Sun”, however, I fell that this has gone too far and is a blatant “in your face” you proved nothing statement. I am having trouble gauging the Gaulle of these people to display what many recognise as an evil object, between the patriotism of my Grandfather and his peer’s. My Grandmother, who also noticed the offending item, keped rather silent about it, until pressed for an opinion later in the car on the drive home. She made it rather clear that she did not want to talk about it. I am looking for Dopers reaction to this to gauge (from such a sensible bunch) whether I have lost the plott, or am justified. (The cross “arms” point clock wise, not anti) Nathan ---
**Author:** ![FarmerOak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@FarmerOak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerOak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/2 "2001-07-25T03:51:18Z")
Just to clarify… when you say “Nazi Cross,” are you referring to a swastika? ---
**Author:** ![NotBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NotBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/3 "2001-07-25T03:57:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FarmerOak \* > \*\*Just to clarify… when you say “Nazi Cross,” are you referring to a swastika? > \*\* Yes, Like the ones depicted on the red and black flags from WWII. ---
**Author:** ![FarmerOak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@FarmerOak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerOak)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/4 "2001-07-25T04:02:02Z")
OK, just wanted to make sure it wasn’t the Iron Cross or Victoria Cross or something. If it’s a swastika, I wouldn’t worry about it. It won’t be there too much longer. Where the hell IS this thing, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![NotBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NotBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/5 "2001-07-25T04:09:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FarmerOak \* > \*\* > > Where the hell IS this thing, by the way? > \*\* It is in a cemetery near Sydney in Australia. I too assumed that it would not be there for long, however I have not been back to see. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/6 "2001-07-25T04:37:34Z")
Being of German background myself, that doesn’t insult me but it does suprise me. I wouldn’t be suprised of a Maltese/Iron cross type but a Swastika… Hmmm. Tough call. Try not to be too offended. Its not worth it. The war must have meant a lot to him and he was proud to serve his country, right or wrong. I would be curious to know who the fallen man is, I wonder if he was a high ranking officer of some sort. Can you get a name next time your through? ---
**Author:** ![NotBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NotBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/7 "2001-07-25T05:09:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bernse \* > \*\* > Try not to be too offended. Its not worth it. The war must have meant a lot to him and he was proud to serve his country, right or wrong. I would be curious to know who the fallen man is, I wonder if he was a high ranking officer of some sort. Can you get a name next time your through? > \*\* I am actually starting to think I have over reacted. I really do not know that much about the meaning of the swastika, as it probably has had more uses than just what the Nazis used it for. Although I still feel unsettled, I have decided not to pursue the matter further. Thanks guys for your input. ---
**Author:** ![Mortish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/54ee81/32.png) [@Mortish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mortish)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/8 "2001-07-25T05:23:21Z")
\>\>I really do not know that much about the meaning of the swastika, as it probably has had more uses than just what the Nazis used it for. Indeed it has, and it is an acient symbol. ---
**Author:** ![Gaspode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gaspode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaspode)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/9 "2001-07-25T05:35:48Z")
I think you should make an effort to find out who this person is and what the story is. I find it hard to believe that anyone would erect such a monument in a cemetary anywhere in this country without knowing what the significance of the symbol is. Granted the swastika is an ancient symbol, but lets face facts, in Australia it has only one accepted meaning. There’s got to be a story here that’s worth finding out. BTW you do know that the Australian Army badge is in fact a wall of swords defending a crown, not a rising sun. ---
**Author:** ![RAWisSYDNEY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4491bb/32.png) [@RAWisSYDNEY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RAWisSYDNEY)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/10 "2001-07-25T08:05:51Z")
i heard that a swstika with the arms inverted is some religious symbol, maybe thats what it is? and not the aforementioned ‘nazi symbol’ ---
**Author:** ![NotBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NotBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/11 "2001-07-25T08:22:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaspode \* > \*\*BTW you do know that the Australian Army badge is in fact a wall of swords defending a crown, not a rising sun. \*\* No, not essentially, I was using the wording that my grandmother used to describe the emblem but can now plainly see what they are. – Dopers, I may have gone off on a rant on this one in the wrong direction. In fact I may even of offended some people in doing so. I have gathered more info on the grave itself, and this follows: The symbol is mounted on a cube and of the four sides of the cube that are showing there is printed some form of Asian text that differs on each side. Obviously, upon viewing from different sides the direction of the “blades” on the symbol changes, from pointing to the right, to the left. My question now is, what is this symbol, what is it’s meaning and am I being a tosser? Nathan ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/12 "2001-07-25T08:45:27Z")
It’s most likely a Hindu grave. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/13 "2001-07-25T11:37:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RAWisSYDNEY \* > \*\*i heard that a swstika with the arms inverted is some religious symbol, maybe thats what it is? > and not the aforementioned ‘nazi symbol’ \*\* A symbol of Buddhism is a cross that looks like a mirror-image of a swastika… are you sure that what yu saw was a Nazi swastika? Here in Korea I am surrounded by (what I, at first, thought were) swastikas… but they are not! (I did a search to try to find a picture of one, but came up empty… didn’t search too hard, of course…;)) ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/14 "2001-07-25T12:05:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Astroboy14 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by RAWisSYDNEY \* > > \*\*i heard that a swstika with the arms inverted is some religious symbol, maybe thats what it is? > > and not the aforementioned ‘nazi symbol’ \*\* > > A symbol of Buddhism is a cross that looks like a mirror-image of a swastika… are you sure that what yu saw was a Nazi swastika? > > Here in Korea I am surrounded by (what I, at first, thought were) swastikas… but they are not! > > (I did a search to try to find a picture of one, but came up empty… didn’t search too hard, of course…;)) \*\* Here’s a picture : [![](http://www.lifeinkorea.com/Images/Seoul/Llf255.jpg) ](http://www.lifeinkorea.com/Images/Seoul/Llf255.jpg) No doubt that an even greater surprise would be seeing the reverse swastikas intermixed with six-pointed stars at shinto shrines. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/15 "2001-07-25T12:22:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Astroboy14 \* > \*\* > A symbol of Buddhism is a cross that looks like a mirror-image of a swastika… are you sure that what yu saw was a Nazi swastika? > \*\* I’d say it’s the other way round. It’s the Nazi swastika that is a mirror-image of the real thing. > [@](#): > > Swastika is a sanskrit word derived from the roots “su” which means goodness, and “asti”, to be. Rotating in the correct, clockwise direction, the sacred symbol describes a wheel of positive force, the strength of life and perpetuation of relationships between fellow man. To reverse direction is negative. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/16 "2001-07-25T13:02:45Z")
Yeah, there’s a small organization here in the U.S. (profiled in the NY Times a few months ago) that’s trying to rehabilitate the swastika within the Western world, drop the National Socialist connotations and return it to its pre-Nazi, benevolent roots. I ain’t gonna hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/17 "2001-07-25T13:14:28Z")
I thought about it when I logged in briefly last night but a) the board was _really_ slow, and I didn’t want to crash it and b) I kinda suspected that the OP was making a factually incorrect assumption about the swastika as now seems apparant. ---
**Author:** ![NotBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NotBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/18 "2001-07-25T23:35:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*I kinda suspected that the OP was making a factually incorrect assumption about the swastika as now seems apparant. \*\* After doing a little more research based on the suggestions from some posts, it does seem that I have jumped the gun here, and was wrong. I feel a little bad about this so, if I have offended any Buddhists, than I am sorry. Thanks guys for your input. Nathan ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/19 "2001-07-26T01:20:20Z")
Not a problem; that’s what we’re here for. [sub]well, maybe no ME, per se, since I didn’t get a chance to chime in . . . but WE as the straight dope community, you see, and, well, I guess I’ll just be moving along here . . . [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705/20 "2001-07-26T01:49:05Z")
My next door neighbors are Indian. A few months back their daughter got married ( **HUGE** fancy wedding). When we got the invitation (big, fancy, formal invitation), there on the front was a big “backwards” swaktika made out of corn. When my dad asked about it they said it was basically a symbol of love. What did they call it? A swastika. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nazism-tombstone/73705.md?page=2)