# NBA 2018-2019 Season **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 19, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212 "2018-10-19T15:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/401 "2019-05-26T05:20:24Z")
[Yahoo! Sports: Warriors open as massive NBA Finals favorites over Raptors in Las Vegas](https://sports.yahoo.com/warriors-raptors-nba-finals-vegas-odds-033659262.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/402 "2019-05-26T06:00:01Z")
In the season series (one game each, home and away), the Raptors won both games. The first in Toronto, by three points in overtime, without Curry, and by twenty in Oakland, without Kawhi. Thus, Toronto’s best bet is to bench Kawhi Leonard whenever Curry is playing, and simply weather the ensuing Kevin Durant 50 point outburst. Ok, never mind. In all fairness, Toronto has a very good team. To dispatch the 76ers and Bucks, two young and impressive teams back-to-back, is not the easiest of feats. And the Warriors have looked lethargic at times. But since Kevin Durant’s injury, they’ve dismantled the team built and coached specifically to beat them and slaughtered a hot, though tired, Trail Blazers team. The Warriors can rotate a plethora of very good defenders on Leonard, including, but not limited to, Andre Iguodala (when he’s back), Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, and Kevin Durant (whenever he comes back). Lowry’s good, but he ain’t CP3 or Harden good. This is the same basic team that absolutely annihilated LeBron James, Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving two years ago. Until the Raptors solve the Warriors offense, something only two teams have barely achieved in the past four years, they can maaaaaaaaybe hope to slow them down. But they don’t have anywhere near the firepower to keep up. Warriors in five, if Toronto gets lucky and catches them napping. No one else has managed that in the Finals for years. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/403 "2019-05-26T11:27:36Z")
Toronto was ranked 3rd all year in defensive efficiency, and they just dispatched the number one team in that category. They’ve also now defeated 2 teams with offensive scoring threats in Phila and Milwaukee. Granted, the Sixers and Bucks aren’t the Warriors on offense, but the Raptors will make the Warriors work both ends of the floor probably as hard as any team GS has faced over the past few years. And without KD that could be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/404 "2019-05-26T13:27:52Z")
I anticipate a very good series. Many are saying the Warriors in 5, but with that Raptors defense I think it’ll go 6 or 7. As the saying goes, offense sells tickets but defense wins championships. I guess that comes from Bear Bryant, but will it hold true here and lead to Toronto winning? ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/405 "2019-05-26T22:17:57Z")
I said before that I’d take Golden State in 5 over anyone from the East, so I’ll stick with that. I didn’t realize at the time that game 5 is a road game for the Warriors, so maybe 6 games makes more sense. It just seems like the Warriors are too good. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/406 "2019-05-28T01:22:58Z")
Raptors in 7. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/407 "2019-05-28T13:18:13Z")
I absolutely think the Warriors are the favourite, but the number of people saying there is no chance Toronto could win just haven’t been paying attention. I’d say the Raptors have one chance in three. Anyone who wants to give me much better odds than that, I’ll take that action. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/408 "2019-05-28T15:33:33Z")
I haven’t followed NBA nearly as much as I have in the past - haven’t even had a chance to check out playoff games much, which is a shame. The defensive stats for Toronto caught my attention though. I don’t know whether they will win or even make it past the 5th game, but just their defense, Kawhi Leonard, and the quality of their competition leads me to believe that they’re probably the most complete team GS has faced certainly this year, and maybe going back to Cleveland in 2016. This is also the one series that makes me think they might actually miss KD. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/409 "2019-05-28T15:50:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I absolutely think the Warriors are the favourite, but the number of people saying there is no chance Toronto could win just haven’t been paying attention. I’d say the Raptors have one chance in three. Anyone who wants to give me much better odds than that, I’ll take that action. Well, the books have the Raptors at +240 or +260, so the action is there for you to take :). Interestingly, though, I’m seeing that the line is Raptors by 1 for game 1, which seems strange since the Warriors are so favored in the series overall. Maybe the series odds are based on the assumption that Durant will be back. It doesn’t seem at all certain to me that he will be, though. Interesting note: the Raptors are the only team that the Warriors haven’t beaten yet this season. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/410 "2019-05-28T16:14:43Z")
Statistically I don’t see a huge conflict between Toronto by 1 in a home game and heavily favoring Golden State in the series overall. If you’re going to give Toronto a point at home, and Golden State (just making this up) nine points in Oakland, that probably adds up to GS winning the series the great majority of the time. You’re essentially saying the Warriors will probably win two games in Toronto, and probably will not lose a game at home. I notice the many, many folks who laughed at the Raptors for making the Leonard-DeRozan trade are very quiet now. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/411 "2019-05-28T16:26:04Z")
Yeah, I guess that’s right. Making the Toronto games toss-ups and the Warriors favourites at home should make the numbers work out. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/412 "2019-05-28T17:50:57Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I notice the many, many folks who laughed at the Raptors for making the Leonard-DeRozan trade are very quiet now. I don’t think anyone laughed because DeRozan was better than Leonard, they laughed because it made the organization look disloyal and Leonard was likely to leave. I don’t think either of those things has changed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/413 "2019-05-28T19:21:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Statistically I don’t see a huge conflict between Toronto by 1 in a home game and heavily favoring Golden State in the series overall. If you’re going to give Toronto a point at home, and Golden State (just making this up) nine points in Oakland, that probably adds up to GS winning the series the great majority of the time. You’re essentially saying the Warriors will probably win two games in Toronto, and probably will not lose a game at home. > > I notice the many, many folks who laughed at the Raptors for making the Leonard-DeRozan trade are very quiet now. Nobody here in San Antonio laughed, we just made the cogent observation that what Kawhi _claimed_ the Spurs did is precisely what the Raptors _did_ - exhibit a great deal of disloyalty to their best player. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/414 "2019-05-28T20:25:53Z")
First of all, it is simply untrue that all the criticism of the trade was based on the argument of “loyalty.” That’s just false. I mean, let’s look at the SDMB thread on the subject; the word “loyalty” is never once used by any person criticizing the trade. The criticism was that Leonard wasn’t likelier to make the team better. One SDMB poster, for instance, typed this, nary a thing about loyalty: > [@](#): > > Toronto got a one-and-done player with obvious personality and behavior issues, one who sat out the most of last season with a mysterious quad injury which may or may not be healed, who has no desire to be there and has a history… a recent history, at that… of fighting with his team and, literally, running away from his responsibilities. > > The common theme is that KL didn’t like San Antonio. IMHO, the more likely explanation is that KL has no desire to be The Man on a team with a winning tradition. He was fine playing in Duncan’s shadow, but once the responsibility of providing leadership fell on his shoulders? Did not want to do it. > > Leaving HS, he was recruited by the following teams: > > U of Washington > USC > UCLA > Arizona > San Diego State > > 4 major schools, 2 of which have won NCAA championships in the past 25 years (and UCLA is, of course, one of the more storied programs in the league), and which does he choose? The school where just getting to the NCAA’s was the standard for excellence. (And, it should be noted, got to the NCAA’s both before and after Leonard’s two years there, making it to the S16 in 2013, a run of success which is more attributed to their coach, Steve Fisher, than it is Kawhi.) > > I wish him well. I wish Toronto well. But they did trade for a guy who pouted his way out of $80 million, ran from his coach, and decided he couldn’t carry on the legacies of George Gervin, David Robinson, and Tim Duncan. Good luck with that. The same poster also referred to Leonard as “Kawhibaby” and “Kawhilitter,” never mentioning, though, Toronto’s lack of loyalty to DeRozan. Good luck indeed. The Raptors have had their best season ever and they’re playing with house money to win the NBA title. It’s exactly what Masai Ujiri was hoping for and loyalty? It’s business. What about Ujiri’s loyalty to Kyle Lowry, Serge Ibaka, Pascal Siakam, and all the other guys to give them the teammates they needed to make the Finals? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/415 "2019-05-28T20:28:55Z")
As a Spurs fan, almost nobody in San Antonio laughed and thought that the Spurs got a better player by dealing Kawhi for DeRozan. It was well known that Kawhi was better. But Kawhi simply didn’t mesh with the Spurs’ ways or approach. At that point, the best you can do is just deal for what you can get. If a player doesn’t want to stay you can’t make him stay. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/416 "2019-05-28T20:31:27Z")
LOL. When I wrote > [@](#): > > But they did trade for a guy who pouted his way out of $80 million, ran from his coach, and decided he couldn’t carry on the legacies of George Gervin, David Robinson, and Tim Duncan. Good luck with that. … does this not strike you as me saying the dipshit was disloyal, just in 30 words instead of 1? Note that I didn’t remark as to the Toronto end of the deal where they absolutely _lied_ to DeRozan, saying he was their guy. But that was “disloyal” too. If you’re going to trade the guy, tell him. Don’t lie to him and don’t @ me with the “it’s a business” bs, because you can conduct business without lying about it. But the reason why I didn’t remark about Toronto? Because I didn’t give a shit about Toronto. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/417 "2019-05-28T22:31:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But Kawhi simply didn’t mesh with the Spurs’ ways or approach. That’s revisionist. San Antonio thought he was the _ultimate_ Spurs guy, right after Tim Duncan. The perfect late period complement and successor to Duncan’s reign. Quiet, undemonstrative, coachable, low drama, tremendously skilled two-player. He was the perfect Spur. Right up until he wasn’t. I don’t blame Spurs fans for disavowing him _now_. Even at my remove the situation with San Antonio struck me as weird. But he meshed perfectly fine with the Spurs’ organization from 2011-2017. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/418 "2019-05-28T23:09:59Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > LOL. When I wrote > > … does this not strike you as me saying the dipshit was disloyal, just in 30 words instead of 1? Literally four posts ago you claimed the criticism was that the RAPTORS were disloyal to Demar DeRozan. Now… um, what was the problem with the trade from the Raptors’ perspective again? > [@](#): > > Note that I didn’t remark as to the Toronto end of the deal where they absolutely _lied_ to DeRozan, saying he was their guy. Even Demar DeRozan is fine with this now. Honestly, what nonsense. It’s a business, they made a trade, and it worked, and the folks who said it was a bad trade were wrong. Sure, Demar liked Toronto and it liked him. Oh well. As a team executive, if you think like the fans, you’ll soon join them. Ujiri made the right move at the right time. Incidentally, whether Ujiri lied to DeRozan isn’t actually something you know. DeRozan felt mistreated, but that’s understandable; he didn’t want to leave, was going through a really rough patch (his marriage was falling apart) and, hey, misunderstandings happen. He and Ujiri seemed fine with each other pretty shortly after. Hey, you know who else was upset? Kyle Lowry; he was, and maybe still is, Demar’s best friend. Ask Kyle today how he feels about the trade. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/419 "2019-05-29T14:01:36Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Well, the books have the Raptors at +240 or +260, so the action is there for you to take :). Interestingly, though, I’m seeing that the line is Raptors by 1 for game 1, which seems strange since the Warriors are so favored in the series overall. Maybe the series odds are based on the assumption that Durant will be back. It doesn’t seem at all certain to me that he will be, though. > > **Interesting note: the Raptors are the only team that the Warriors haven’t beaten yet this season.** Absolutely meaningless. Remember what G.S. did to Cleveland during the regular season the year that Cleveland (somehow) defeated them in the Finals? ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212/420 "2019-05-29T14:06:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Statistically I don’t see a huge conflict between Toronto by 1 in a home game and heavily favoring Golden State in the series overall. If you’re going to give Toronto a point at home, and Golden State (just making this up) nine points in Oakland, that probably adds up to GS winning the series the great majority of the time. You’re essentially saying the Warriors will probably win two games in Toronto, **and probably will not lose a game at home**. > > I notice the many, many folks who laughed at the Raptors for making the Leonard-DeRozan trade are very quiet now. I like to think that’s a safe bet, as long as the Warriors don’t sleepwalk through the series the way they apparently did when they faced the pathetic Clippers (‘course, if they “sleepwalk” through THIS series then they’ll probably end up LOSING it, just as they did to Cleveland 3 years ago when they had SLAUGHTERED the Cavaliers in the two teams’ regular season meetings. But they seem to have “upped their game” since letting the pitiful Clips complete that historic comeback against them in Game 2 and push them to Game 6 of that series) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-2018-2019-season/823212.md?page=22)