# NBA off-season **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 23, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723 "2013-06-23T20:28:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/181 "2013-07-09T16:21:54Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The toughest picks were #1 in the West, and #8 in the West. There at at least 4 teams with a good shot at it, I went with Denver because they made the playoffs with an Iguodala-free roster similar to this on in '11-'12, and they have a distinct identity (run, get to the rim, run, shoots 3’s, run) (assuming it survives the coaching change), which seems to help. That sounds about right, but Denver lost their coach, their very good GM, and Iguodala and Koufos. They still have some really good players, but I am not sure another coach will get as much out of them and the quality of the hodgepodge did decrease. Is Darrell Arthur going to replace Koufos? Because if they’re looking at more minutes for JaVale “WTF” McGee, that’s not good. > [@](#): > > Rose will help, sure, but when I compare their roster to Miami, Indiana, and Brooklyn, it looks pretty paltry. Maybe they pass New York and get the #4. Further moves would change things; you know how I feel about Boozer. It’s hard to see them finishing higher than that in the standings. The playoffs could be a different story if things go well. > [@](#): > > The amnesty is an asset in itself. It can only be used on guys who were on the roster when the current CBA was enacted, so it loses value over time as players move around. Right. The number of players who _can_ be amnestied has become pretty small at this point. > [@](#): > > Cleveland’s offer to Bynum is reported to be 2 years, $24 million. That second year is a team option, I think, and that’s very important. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/182 "2013-07-09T18:36:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That sounds about right, but Denver lost their coach, their very good GM, and Iguodala and Koufos. They still have some really good players, but I am not sure another coach will get as much out of them and the quality of the hodgepodge did decrease. Is Darrell Arthur going to replace Koufos? Because if they’re looking at more minutes for JaVale “WTF” McGee, that’s not good. They also signed J.J. Hickson, who played a lot of center for Portland, despite being 6’ 9". That center spot is worrying for the Nuggets, though. No Koufos, no Mozgov, no Rudy Gobert. > [@Marley23](#): > > It’s hard to see them finishing higher than that in the standings. The playoffs could be a different story if things go well. Agreed, they’ll be a better playoff team than a regular-season team: not that much depth, but a great coach and a great defense. > [@Marley23](#): > > That second year is a team option, I think, and that’s very important. Ah, so it is. Smart move by the Cavs, they can get a top-5 center for two years if he’s healthy and productive. _And_, if he does play the two years, the Cavs will have his early Bird rights, to either re-sign him or to make a trade easier, as early Bird rights move with the player in a trade. Atlanta’s at a crossroads here. Should they blow things up, or try to replace Smith and stay as middling-to-fringe playoff team? Going after Bynum and Monta Ellis indicates the latter, but I’m not sure that’s such a hot idea. Al Horford and his very reasonable contract and Jeff Teague both have a lot of value as trade pieces, now might be the time to clean house and start over with long-term assets. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/183 "2013-07-09T20:15:20Z")
Also, NBA Summer League has started. Orlando has Oladipo running point guard, with mixed results: > [@](#): > > Though he played well overall, Oladipo definitely had his fair share of mistakes in his first crack at point guard. Midway through the third quarter against Boston, Oladipo struggled mightily in performing relatively simple tasks like getting the ball across half court, getting his team into the proper set, and making entry passes into the post. The end result for Oladipo was six turnovers against a Celtics team that was rather underwhelming, but in the grand scheme of things, those mistakes were just a down payment for a great learning experience that should continue this whole week. Many NBA teams are using sets with two ball-handlers on the court at once (Conley Jr and Bayless, Curry and Jack, Parker and Ginobili, Kidd and Felton, to name a few from last year), so even if Oladipo never plays point guard, it’s a skill set he should learn. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/184 "2013-07-10T01:28:17Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > 1. Miami - The king stays the king. > > 2. Indiana - signed Chris Copeland, kept David West. If they hang on to Danny Granger, then their biggest weakness, an awful bench, has been (imperfectly, Jonny Flynn is involved) addressed. Paul George and Roy Hibbert continue to improve, and their defense is top-2. > > 3. Brooklyn - found a way to improve despite being capped out, now have a nasty-on-paper potential starting 5 of Williams-Johnson-Pierce-Garnett-Lopez. If they stay healthy and Jason Kidd can coach, they should have about two years to contend for a title. > > 4. New York - Meh. Andrea Bargnani, really? > > 5. Chicago - best record in the league just two years ago, but by standing still, other teams have passed them. Unless Jimmy Butler goes from good to great, or Carlos Boozer regains his Utah form or is amnestied, I think they’re stuck as a fringe contender. > > 6. Cleveland - 8 teams have to make the playoffs, after all. > > 7. Washington - my fun pick, Wall and Beal emerge as a top-5 backcourt and take advantage of a top-heavy East to sneak into the playoffs. > > 8. Boston - Rondo and Gerald Wallace drag the Celts to the playoffs, probably with a 35-47 record. Or worse. I have to say that I think you’re totally underestimating Chicago. With a healthy Rose and a team that was so good against Miami in spurts, I don’t see them losing homecourt in the first round. I’m completely not sold on NY. I see their hot start last year as the exception rather than the rule, and their very human record later on to be more of an indication of what they are at. I think the Net take the #2 spot, and Chicago/Indiana are fighting for #3 and #4. The bottom of the conference will be terrible though ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/185 "2013-07-10T04:10:14Z")
Chris Andersen is staying in Miami even though he was offered more money and longer contracts by other teams. The Bucks and Kings continued to rearrange their deck chairs with Luc Richard Mbah a Moute being traded to Sacramento for two second-round picks. The Andre Iguodala deal has been reworked so that it’s a sign and trade; the gist is that Utah gets Randy Foye on a three-year deal and Denver gets a $9 million trade exception. The market for the remaining guards is still moving slowly. ESPN is running a story that says Monta Ellis has narrowed his list to the Bobcats, Kings, Mavs, and Hawks. ([NBA.com](http://NBA.com) says it’s three teams and leaves out Charlotte.) It sounds like a story planted by his agent to try to get someone to raise their offer because I have trouble believing a bunch more teams had that much interest in him. Not because he stinks or anything but because there just doesn’t seem to be much demand for him or Brandon Jennings or Teague. Ellis was going to get $11 million this season if he hadn’t opted out and I’m interested to see how his new contract compares to that. The stories say he’d like to make a decision in the next two days. The Hawks and Bucks are still figuring out what to do with Jennings and Teague. There were reports about a trade at one point. If Teague were traded to Milwaukee he’d be back together with Larry Drew and Zaza Pachulia. At their best the Hawks were a mishmash team that couldn’t get above the middle of the pack in the East, so you can see why Milwaukee would want to recreate their roster. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/186 "2013-07-10T13:53:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I have to say that I think you’re totally underestimating Chicago. With a healthy Rose and a team that was so good against Miami in spurts, I don’t see them losing homecourt in the first round. Maybe. Then again, Boozer is 31 and down to 16 ppg on 47% shooting (a career low), Deng is battling various health problems, Noah’s also been hobbled, and the team has been totally unable to find a competent shooting guard. Couple that with the rust Rose is going to have to play through, and the 5-seed sounds about right. _Maybe_ 4. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’m completely not sold on NY. I see their hot start last year as the exception rather than the rule, and their very human record later on to be more of an indication of what they are at. I think the Net take the #2 spot, and Chicago/Indiana are fighting for #3 and #4. Then again, Carmelo had to adjust to playing power forward for the first time in his career, and now he’s had a full season to get used to it. With a healthy Chandler, they can run a great pick and roll, or post up Carmelo, who’s getting better and better at kicking out of double teams and interior passing. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > The bottom of the conference will be terrible though I’d say everything south of the 5 seed will be pretty bad, for playoff teams. Especially if the Celtics move Rondo out of the conference. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/187 "2013-07-10T14:03:31Z")
A healthy Tyson Chandler may be a lot to ask for, and I don’t think Noah’s health problems are chronic. Tim Duncan seems to have beaten the scourge of plantar fasciitis and as the playoffs went on Noah appeared to play better. It is true that one of my few concerns about Tom Thibodeau is how little he rests his key guys. I hope he gets better at that this year. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/188 "2013-07-10T14:35:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Chris Andersen is staying in Miami even though he was offered more money and longer contracts by other teams. The Bucks and Kings continued to rearrange their deck chairs with Luc Richard Mbah a Moute being traded to Sacramento for two second-round picks. The Andre Iguodala deal has been reworked so that it’s a sign and trade; the gist is that Utah gets Randy Foye on a three-year deal and Denver gets a $9 million trade exception. Utah’s loading up on guards, surely they’ll be able to cobble together a decent backcourt. > [@Marley23](#): > > The market for the remaining guards is still moving slowly. ESPN is running a story that says Monta Ellis has narrowed his list to the Bobcats, Kings, Mavs, and Hawks. ([NBA.com](http://NBA.com) says it’s three teams and leaves out Charlotte.) It sounds like a story planted by his agent to try to get someone to raise their offer because I have trouble believing a bunch more teams had that much interest in him. Not because he stinks or anything but because there just doesn’t seem to be much demand for him or Brandon Jennings or Teague. Ellis was going to get $11 million this season if he hadn’t opted out and I’m interested to see how his new contract compares to that. The stories say he’d like to make a decision in the next two days. I don’t normally feel sorry for millionaire athletes, but that list is pretty depressing. It makes sense, the league has figured out that efficiency matters more than points-per-game, and Ellis has been a wildly inefficient player every season except his breakout '07-'08 year. But I think there’s an efficient player to be mined from Ellis if he plays with a decent supporting cast and a good coach for the first time. So, I hope he ends up on the Mavs, the only one on the list with anything like a decent supporting cast or a good coach. > [@Marley23](#): > > The Hawks and Bucks are still figuring out what to do with Jennings and Teague. There were reports about a trade at one point. If Teague were traded to Milwaukee he’d be back together with Larry Drew and Zaza Pachulia. At their best the Hawks were a mishmash team that couldn’t get above the middle of the pack in the East, so you can see why Milwaukee would want to recreate their roster. Just based on the eye test, Teague is the better player, and the Hawks would be fools to swap him for Jennings and his 39% field goal percentage. > [@Marley23](#): > > A healthy Tyson Chandler may be a lot to ask for, and I don’t think Noah’s health problems are chronic. Tim Duncan seems to have beaten the scourge of plantar fasciitis and as the playoffs went on Noah appeared to play better. It is true that one of my few concerns about Tom Thibodeau is how little he rests his key guys. I hope he gets better at that this year. They’ll be chronic when he’s playing 37 MPG again, and his backup is Nazr Mohammed. If Chicago could land a replacement-level backup center and play Noah 30 minutes a game, I think he’d be fine. As it stands, though, he’s on the same trajectory as Luol Deng: 38 mpg, then 39, 39, 39, and his body falling apart. (As for Tim Duncan…34, 33, 31, 28, 28, 30 mpg since his plantar fasciitis issues. Makes a big difference) If they could have only kept Omer Asik…damn Houston and their poison-pills! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/189 "2013-07-10T14:50:36Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Utah’s loading up on guards, surely they’ll be able to cobble together a decent backcourt. Do they want one? I think they’re just looking to suck and get high draft picks as they try to build around Burke, Kantor, and Favors. > [@](#): > > I don’t normally feel sorry for millionaire athletes, but that list is pretty depressing. It is. Maybe feel bad for the fans of those teams since they may be hoping that things will start to get better if they get Monta Ellis. I agree it’s possible the Mavs could put him to good use but there’s not much cause for optimism with those other teams. It’s probably a good thing for Charlotte if they are out of the running. That just doesn’t make any sense for them. > [@](#): > > Just based on the eye test, Teague is the better player, and the Hawks would be fools to swap him for Jennings and his 39% field goal percentage. I’m not sure why the Hawks have so little interest in Teague. I guess they think he’s replaceable, but I don’t get why you’d replace him with Jennings. Anyway I think it may be hard for the teams to make it work and the Bucks may just make an offer for Teague. > [@](#): > > They’ll be chronic when he’s playing 37 MPG again, and his backup is Nazr Mohammed. Yeah, that’s still a problem. > [@](#): > > If they could have only kept Omer Asik…damn Houston and their poison-pills! They could get him back if Houston decides to trade him! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/190 "2013-07-10T15:13:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do they want one? I think they’re just looking to suck and get high draft picks as they try to build around Burke, Kantor, and Favors. I think so, as long as they are young and cheap, because it’ll slow down the development of Kanter and Favors if they don’t have at least competent guards to throw them entry passes and run the pick and roll with them. Randy Foye isn’t young, but he’s not good enough to interfere with their mission to accrue lottery picks. It’s reported that they are also trying to sigh John Lucas III, who’s 30. So, I think “decent” to “sub-par” is the target; Foye is an upgrade over Jamaal Tinsely and Raja Bell. > [@Marley23](#): > > It is. Maybe feel bad for the fans of those teams since they may be hoping that things will start to get better if they get Monta Ellis. I agree it’s possible the Mavs could put him to good use but there’s not much cause for optimism with those other teams. It’s probably a good thing for Charlotte if they are out of the running. That just doesn’t make any sense for them. The Kings would be the worst spot, probably, a collection of selfish, pass-allergic gunners who don’t play defense would feed into every bad habit Ellis has accrued over his career. The Bobcats make no sense for either the team or Ellis, and I have no idea what the plan is in Atlanta, or if there even is one. So, hope it’s the Mavs. > [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure why the Hawks have so little interest in Teague. I guess they think he’s replaceable, but I don’t get why you’d replace him with Jennings. Anyway I think it may be hard for the teams to make it work and the Bucks may just make an offer for Teague. Exactly, why ship out Teague to get a slightly inferior version of him with a very similar price tag? Makes no sense that I can fathom. If you don’t want to pay much for Teague, then let him leave and target a point guard on a rookie contract, not another restricted free agent. Weird. > [@Marley23](#): > > Yeah, that’s still a problem. Can Chicago not attract veterans who’ll sign cheap deals to be in a big market and contend for a title? New York, L.A., and even Miami and sometimes Boston are able to, what’s wrong with Chicago that they can’t? Why isn’t Chris Kaman or Jermaine O’Neal or Sam Dalembert or **somebody** angling to play in Chicago for peanuts? I don’t get it. > [@Marley23](#): > > They could get him back if Houston decides to trade him! Sure, after next year when his salary jumps to $15 million. Then, they’ll be happy to hear any and all offers. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/191 "2013-07-10T15:31:02Z")
Ellis would function best as a super-6th man off the bench who can provide scoring punch. Ideally he would be paired with a strong, shoot-second PG and strong interior defense. The only problems with this plan is that Ellis sees himself as a star in the league who shouldn’t reduce himself to being a 6th man (seriously, google “Monta Ellis is deluded”), and the teams interested in him don’t fit the above description very well. At all. ---
**Author:** ![conway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@conway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conway)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/192 "2013-07-10T16:07:46Z")
I guess the Lakers really are getting the band back together, they signed Jordan Farmar after buying out his Turkey league contract. Now all they need is Lamar, Sasha and they’re all set. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/193 "2013-07-10T16:49:29Z")
Ronny Turiaf and Luke Walton are free agents too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/194 "2013-07-10T17:49:24Z")
Monta Ellis just fired his agent, which I think says a lot about how he feels about opting out of an $11 million contract. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/195 "2013-07-10T18:26:32Z")
Oh, Monta. It’s too bad you had to learn this the hard way, but you just don’t have elite skills in anything. Your FG% has gotten progressively worse, you’re a mediocre 3 point shooter, you’re an average shooter at the FT line, you turn the ball over a lot,… [The Bobs] What exactly would you say, you _do_ here? [/The Bobs] ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/196 "2013-07-10T18:30:32Z")
Oh, Monta… Zach Lowe wasn’t kidding when he said you were in for a “rude awakening” if you opted out of your option with the Bucks. I still say he can be very, very valuable in the right role on the right team. Also, since Atlanta got Paul Millsap and resigned Korver, I think they’ll make the playoffs. Sorry, Boston, I now predict: 1. Miami 2. Indiana 3. Brooklyn 4. New York 5. Chicago 6. Atlanta 7. Cleveland 8. Washington ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/197 "2013-07-10T18:31:54Z")
That Millsap signing was a tremendous bargain, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/198 "2013-07-10T19:15:28Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > That Millsap signing was a tremendous bargain, btw. 'Twas. And I got that Randy Foye thing wrong. He went to Denver from Utah, not the other way around. **Human Action** mentioned Jermaine O’Neal earlier, and he’s off the market: he will go to the Warriors (and so will Toney Douglas). The Spurs and Wolves talked about a trade that would have sent Andrei Kirilenko to San Antonio. That would have been _very_ interesting, but it sounds like the talks didn’t go anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![conway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@conway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conway)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/199 "2013-07-10T19:23:53Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Oh, Monta. It’s too bad you had to learn this the hard way, but you just don’t have elite skills in anything. Your FG% has gotten progressively worse, you’re a mediocre 3 point shooter, you’re an average shooter at the FT line, you turn the ball over a lot,… > > [The Bobs] What exactly would you say, you _do_ here? [/The Bobs] His numbers weren’t terrible, pretty close to Steph Curry’s actually, but he’s a high-volume, ball dominating guard who over acheived on a crappy team. It really would take the right situation to make it work, but no team with any money left would be the right situation. [QUOTE=Human Action] Ronny Turiaf and Luke Walton are free agents too. [/QUOTE] DJ Mbenga? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/200 "2013-07-10T19:35:06Z")
> [@conway](#): > > His numbers weren’t terrible, pretty close to Steph Curry’s actually Can I ask in what way? He’s a terrible three-point shooter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723.md?page=11)