# NBA off-season **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 23, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723 "2013-06-23T20:28:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/21 "2013-06-24T20:13:41Z")
I DON’T like the move and think it’s a smokescreen anyway. 1 - We have much more readily available SF talent than C talent. Webster and Ariza would be pushed to the background while the empty frontcourt spot would have to be platooned with Vesely/Seraphin plus Nene playing more minutes. 2 - Deng will be a 1-year rental and we’ll be left either footing a big-time extension or losing him to another team all together. It’s worth it to roll the dice with Howard or Chris Paul to get the inside track of resigning but to give up so many assets just for the CHANCE to sign Deng is too much. 3 - Losing Okafor’s leadership while gaining Deng’s leadership savvy could potentially help in some locker room stuff but what we’ll lose in defensive veteran savvy would be debilitating. I know Deng comes from the much-touted Thibadeux system but he’s still just only a SF. On a basketball court your defense is only as good as your Center and we’ll be losing a pretty decent, high-IQ center. 4 - Why would Chicago want with Okafor? Why does Chicago want anyone at all? Their squad right now + Rose coming back is good enough to compete. Why mess with that formula for Otto Porter + Okafor? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/22 "2013-06-24T20:41:34Z")
Am I the only one who doesn’t want the Celtics to move Pierce? IMO he’s earned the right to finish his career here (AND be the last Celtic to wear #34). OTOH, moving KG and Rondo is something we need to do, as we go into rebuild mode. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/23 "2013-06-24T21:03:39Z")
Rondo is probably the only player on that Celtics team that can’t be moved. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/24 "2013-06-25T01:07:50Z")
I really like Deng and I can see what the Bulls are trying to do, but I’d hate to see him go. And I also wonder if they couldn’t get more for him than this if they did trade him. Deng led the league in minutes last year, and I’m surprised Okafor is only 30 because with his solid but middling production and health problems he feels older. They do need some more size, but Okafor and a rookie? In their situation that doesn’t seem like enough. This is a team built to contend now. Very curious about what the Celtics will do with Garnett and Pierce and even Rondo. They could buy out Pierce or keep both him and Garnett until the trade deadline and see what people offer. They could do just fine with Rondo or move him if they get someone younger because he’s more valuable than Garnett or Pierce. They have options but we can see what direction they’re going in, and if they do this right it could be a quick rebuilding process. Or maybe I’m being too optimistic about that. Then there’s the question of what Indiana does with Danny Granger. I don’t think they’ll try to trade him but they have some options. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Soooooooooo…what’s the verdict on Miami’s small ball approach? Vindicated? Inconclusive? They got pushed to two game 7s after cruising through the regular season, but they did ultimately survive. Their main weaknesses were a lack of rebounding, and fatigue in the playoffs on the offensive end from maintaining an energetic perimeter defense. It took having the best player in the league to keep their flaws from sinking them. If making the finals three years ago and winning twice is inconclusive, there’s no such thing as a conclusion. There’s not much to say beyond what **Human Action** said: this works for them, which isn’t too surprising considering they have the best player in the world, a Hall of Famer in Wade, and a hell of a supporting cast. This maximizes the abilities of the guys they have. That doesn’t mean it’s going to work for everybody and they seemed pretty badly worn out at the end of the year, although the Pacers and Spurs get some of the credit for that. Assuming Wade is healthy next year I am sure he will play fewer games and fewer minutes per game, and maybe they can try like hell to get him to play more efficiently and avoid the stuff he’s really bad at. That would do a lot for their offense. I’d be very surprised if Allen doesn’t come back. They can pick and choose from their other shooters and defensive guys. Battier is still really valuable to them but I’d expect diminishing returns. They’d be fools to let Chris Andersen go if they can keep him and they need more big guys. Yes, even if they get some more functional big men they will still be vulnerable against teams like the Pacers, but there’s no such thing as an invulnerable team and if it ain’t broke, _don’t break it_. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/25 "2013-06-25T01:12:39Z")
I don’t think small ball as a strategy is justified as much as Lebron as a player. The size issue is mostly a defensive one and it’s a testament to how Lebron can do whatever he wants on the court offensively (play small) and still be good enough to play defense like a PF and not skip a beat. If Durant was able to defend power forwards the way Lebron can, OKC can play “small ball” too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/26 "2013-06-25T01:36:13Z")
The Thunder should probably go small more often, if only because it would stop them from playing Perkins too much or playing Hasheem Thabeet at all. Durant isn’t LeBron but he’s gotten better on defense. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/27 "2013-06-25T12:24:50Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > The Bulls want the #3 pick _and_ Okafor. Oh, I didn’t see that in the initial report. Yeah, that’s probably too much unless they are positive that Deng is healthy. > [@DCnDC](#): > > Even if Deng is healthy, if he refuses to re-sign or agree to an extension, the Wizards would have traded their best frontcourt defender and a young building block who _could_ develop into a star for a 1-year rental. Right, the Wiz would be wise to insist on a sign-and-trade. > [@DCnDC](#): > > And as far as Wall is concerned, he’s proven himself to the Wizards, but not necessarily to the rest of the league. He’s only going to get a max deal from Washington and everyone, including Wall, knows it. This is true as of this moment, but I think by the end of next year he’ll have secured a max deal. After the All-Star break, he was putting up career-best numbers, and he and Beal are starting to gel. (Then again, I’m biased in favor of Kentucky players). > [@DCnDC](#): > > ETA: [the Post is reporting](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2013/06/24/source-wizards-do-not-intend-to-trade-no-3-draft-pick-for-luol-deng/) that the Wizards have no intention of completing this deal. And check out the nice “Matrix” by LeBron in that pic. Yeah, if Deng won’t participate in a sign-and-trade and/or the Bulls demand Okafor, best to walk away. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/28 "2013-06-25T12:27:57Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > 4 - Why would Chicago want with Okafor? Why does Chicago want anyone at all? Their squad right now + Rose coming back is good enough to compete. Why mess with that formula for Otto Porter + Okafor? That one’s easy: they let Omer Asik leave and almost certainly regret it, Noah was backed up by the totally-washed-up Nazr Mohammed, and ended up playing hurt a lot. A quality backup center is sure to be priority for them this off-season. And moving Deng opens up minutes for Jimmy Butler. Agree with your other points. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/29 "2013-06-25T12:31:24Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Am I the only one who doesn’t want the Celtics to move Pierce? IMO he’s earned the right to finish his career here (AND be the last Celtic to wear #34). OTOH, moving KG and Rondo is something we need to do, as we go into rebuild mode. No, build around Rondo. He’s an underpaid All-Star point guard who’s only 27. That’s a great piece for the new nucleus. > [@pancakes3](#): > > Rondo is probably the only player on that Celtics team that can’t be moved. I’d say Avery Bradley is on that list too, by virtue of being dirt-cheap and highly talented. _Maybe_ Jeff Green if, like a lot of GMs, Danny Ainge would view moving him as admitting a mistake in giving him that extension. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/30 "2013-06-26T01:12:37Z")
Doc Rivers is officially going to L.A. To get the league to sign off on the move the Clippers and Celtics had to agree not to make any trades with each other for the next year even if other teams are involved, so that’s the end of any Garnett-to-Clippers deal. Other teams are kicking the tires on Pierce, and the Celtics have to buy him out or exercise that last year on his contract by the end of this month. With the draft Thursday that makes for an interesting few days. There are also reports the Clippers might trade Eric Bledsoe to Orlando for Arron Aflalo. The Bulls may have reversed course on Deng because reports are that they are discussing a contract extension. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/31 "2013-06-26T01:43:27Z")
Manu Ginobili says he doesn’t plan to retire, by the way. If he does decide to play I expect the Spurs to keep him at a much more team-friendly price and in a smaller role. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/32 "2013-06-26T15:24:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Doc Rivers is officially going to L.A. To get the league to sign off on the move the Clippers and Celtics had to agree not to make any trades with each other for the next year even if other teams are involved, so that’s the end of any Garnett-to-Clippers deal. Which raises the question: who do the Celtics do with KG? He has two more years under contract, a combined $23.5 million, and a no-trade clause. Wonder who’d he’d waive the clause for, now that staying with Doc is off the table. Who needs a PF/C that KG might play for and can afford him & send assets to Boston…hmmm…drawing a blank here. Of the top contenders, Memphis is set in the frontcourt, I can’t see KG playing with Duncan, Miami’s capped out and Ray Allen’s probably coming back, Indiana is set in the frontcourt if they resign West, G-State is capped out…if the Knicks had an amnesty left, I could them them using it on Amare and making a run at KG, but they don’t. I’ve no idea where he might land. Denver? Chicago, if they amnesty Boozer? They don’t have much they can send to Boston, Jimmy Butler would be great for the Celts but I think he’s staying put. OKC? They need a center, and can amnesty Perkins to free up most of the cap space needed ($8.4 million next year, then $9.1) They could send Boston the #29 and #32 picks and Reggie Jackson, something like that? That makes sense, right? Please, Og, not the Lakers. > [@Marley23](#): > > Other teams are kicking the tires on Pierce, and the Celtics have to buy him out or exercise that last year on his contract by the end of this month. Suddenly a tougher call, if they don’t know what’ll happen with KG. > [@Marley23](#): > > With the draft Thursday that makes for an interesting few days. There are also reports the Clippers might trade Eric Bledsoe to Orlando for Arron Aflalo. I loooooove Bledsoe, but that makes sense for LA. They’re super-weak at shooting guard, and need to make a title run before Paul’s various ailments conspire to erode his game. > [@Marley23](#): > > The Bulls may have reversed course on Deng because reports are that they are discussing a contract extension. Maybe they got a positive health update. > [@Marley23](#): > > Manu Ginobili says he doesn’t plan to retire, by the way. If he does decide to play I expect the Spurs to keep him at a much more team-friendly price and in a smaller role. That’s the most Spurs-ish outcome: Manu quickly signs for something like 2 years / $9 million, clearing his cap hold so the Spurs can target some help to make another run at a title with Manu helping in spots. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/33 "2013-06-26T15:53:31Z")
I heard Brian Scalabrine say that KG has about 2 useful (not dominant) years left and Pierce has 3-4 years and are still assets. I have a hard time seeing Pierce contributing in 2018. I think they should cut bait with Manu as well as Splitter. It may be hypocritical of me to say that cutting Deng would mess with the Bulls’ chemistry then advocate clearing cap room for the Spurs to sign Josh Smith but I think the Spurs would be championship locks with Josh Smith. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/34 "2013-06-27T20:49:59Z")
The draft is tonight and I’ll be hoping for some surprises. The news today looks like this: the Nets are interested in trading for Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett and would be willing to send Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries and draft picks to the Celtics. That seems like a pretty underwhelming return to me. The draft picks would be low and Humphries is an expiring contract, but Wallace is in decline and under contract for three more years. ESPN says the Nets are looking for a way to sweeten the deal by also taking Courtney Lee or Jason Terry. And Dwight Howard supposedly doesn’t want to go back to L.A. because of the system they’re running, but call me when he signs a contract. Until then I expect him to change his mind 15 more times. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/35 "2013-06-27T21:33:27Z")
This Nets-Celtics trade sounds like it’s coming together fast and Adrian Wojnarowski has been all over it. The proposed trade for now is Garnett, Pierce and Terry to New Jersey for Reggie Evans, Keith Bogans (via sign and trade), one other player, and first-round picks in 2014, 2016, and 2018. Garnett would have to agree to wave his no-trade clause for any of this to happen, and the trade wouldn’t be completed for another two weeks because of NBA rules. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/36 "2013-06-27T22:26:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The proposed trade for now is Garnett, Pierce and Terry to New Jersey for Reggie Evans, Keith Bogans (via sign and trade), one other player, and first-round picks in 2014, 2016, and 2018. Brooklyn. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/37 "2013-06-27T22:39:04Z")
Right, Brooklyn. And apparently the trade does include all of the players I mentioned earlier: Pierce-Garnett-Terry for Wallace-Humphries-Evans-Bogans-Shengelia and maybe another player and the three picks. All of that is riding on Garnett’s approval, though. Oklahoma City and Minnesota are both supposed to be interested in trading up for the second pick. Sacramento may want to move up, and a couple of teams - maybe even Cleveland if they get a good offer - would move back if they can. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/38 "2013-06-27T23:36:09Z")
Let’s see if the Cavs can somehow swing a trade with Washington to get RG3 for the Browns. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/39 "2013-06-27T23:42:20Z")
W t f ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723/40 "2013-06-27T23:43:38Z")
Well, anytime you can make Canadian history, you’ve gotta do it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-off-season/661723.md?page=3)