# NBA Owner's Racism Exposed **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 26, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069 "2014-04-26T18:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/341 "2014-05-02T21:19:45Z")
‘I don’t care how they look, but they look like idiots.’ Right. And _David Stern_ (not Donald Sterling) did care how they dress because he’s the one who came up with the policy. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/342 "2014-05-02T21:32:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They are not told what to say, and they’re told how to dress only at postgame news conferences. This is wrong. Multiple players have been fined for saying the wrong thing, or not being responsive to questions. Hell, Cuban gets fined for even questioning a ref’s call. They are also told how to dress in a far more scenarios than you acknowledge: > [@](#): > > Stern’s dress code stated that all players must dress in business or conservative attire while arriving and departing during a scheduled game, on the bench while injured, and when conducting official NBA business (press interviews, charity events, etc.). The new dress code banned fashions most often associated with hip-hop culture, specifically: jerseys, jeans, hats, do-rags, t-shirts, large jewelry, sneakers and Timberland style boots.[3] > > This particular clothing is not allowed to be worn by players to interviews, games (on and off the bench), charity events, or any other occasion affiliated with the NBA or the NBDL. Violators of the dress code are fined and may be suspended with repeat offenses.[4] The dress code was developed with the intention of combating image problems that have plagued the NBA in recent history. > > Under current NBA dress regulations, if a player does not dress to participate in a game, he must dress in a manner suitable for a coach. In the NBA, a suit or a sport coat is required for coaches,[3] but a necktie is not required. > [@Marley23](#): > > But for what that’s worth I’ve always hated that move; it was a draconian show of force intended to reassure conservative white fans. Evidently **chicagowhitesox1173** was thrilled, though. Which again invited the parallel however misguiding it is in total. > [@Marley23](#): > > I think most Americans are familiar with the idea of workplace rules. The problem is that they are essentially at work 24/7. Granted this kind of thing is creeping into many white collar professions, but it used to be something fairly unique to public figures. > [@Marley23](#): > > You’ve never seen a player force a trade or request his release? It’s not uncommon. And of course every single element of this applies to every NBA player regardless of race. First, a player cannot really force a trade. They can just become enough of a burden that they get traded. Either way, I am not saying this is something that only applies to Black players. > [@Marley23](#): > > The main point is that the comparison doesn’t work very well. It doesn’t work well because slavery has so much baggage and was such a violent institution, but there are a number of issues that make fairly open minded people make the comparison. Some of it is just the way athletes in general are viewed as commodities that can be used and thrown out when they are old and tired. Another is the dehumanizing aspect of being a public figure mostly valued for your physical skills. A gilded cage is still a cage. Again, I wouldn’t use the analogy because it is fairly hyperbolic and fails to illustrate the important similarities between the two institutions. But to act as though there are no similarities is also incorrect. The vast majority of people would not subject themselves to the draconian rules most public figures (especially athletes) face. It’s not that it’s a bad gig, it’s just that you almost always give up a lot more than you would. ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/343 "2014-05-02T21:33:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > ‘I don’t care how they look, but they look like idiots.’ Right. And _David Stern_ (not Donald Sterling) did care how they dress because he’s the one who came up with the policy. Are you trying to say that David Stern is a racist too now for making black players conform to how white people dress? Sterns dress policy obviously didn’t hold much water because guys from Kevin Durant to Blake Griffin wear some pretty goofy clothes at press conferences. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/344 "2014-05-02T21:56:10Z")
This is why I try to avoid analogies when making an argument. > [@brickbacon](#): > > This is wrong. Multiple players have been fined for saying the wrong thing, or not being responsive to questions. Yes, they are required to be available to the media at certain times and there are rules against criticizing the refs and a couple of other things. That’s not the same thing as being told what to say. > [@](#): > > Hell, Cuban gets fined for even questioning a ref’s call. Hmm, he’s an owner and he’s not black. I don’t think that helped your case. > [@](#): > > They are also told how to dress in a far more scenarios than you acknowledge: You’re right; the policy pretty much applies to anywhere where they are on NBA business. It’s still stupid. > [@](#): > > First, a player cannot really force a trade. They can just become enough of a burden that they get traded. Same thing. It doesn’t work every time, but it happens fairly often. > [@](#): > > Some of it is just the way athletes in general are viewed as commodities that can be used and thrown out when they are old and tired. As opposed to other people in the workforce, who are always treated with the utmost courtesy when they age and never see their jobs eliminated or their pensions gutted. Which is to say sports are just a bit more upfront about this. > [@](#): > > Another is the dehumanizing aspect of being a public figure mostly valued for your physical skills. That’s a better point. > [@](#): > > But to act as though there are no similarities is also incorrect. I didn’t say there are no similarities. I said it’s a very bad comparison, on which we agree. > [@](#): > > The vast majority of people would not subject themselves to the draconian rules most public figures (especially athletes) face. It’s not that it’s a bad gig, it’s just that you almost always give up a lot more than you would. I think a lot of people would accept those restrictions if they got the rewards that came with them. Some really wouldn’t, and that doesn’t mean the restrictions don’t exist- you can see some of the players are much more comfortable with all the rules and the rigamarole than the others. But I think that’s how tradeoffs work in general. > [@chicagowhitesox1173](#): > > Are you trying to say that David Stern is a racist too now for making black players conform to how white people dress? Racist is the wrong word. But yes, he was playing to the prejudices of older white people (advertisers, sponsors, corporate season ticket buyers) at a time there was some concern the league was being seen as “to thuggish,” “too street,” “too hip hop.” The dress code was a petty way of making the league more palatable to those people. > [@](#): > > Sterns dress policy obviously didn’t hold much water because guys from Kevin Durant to Blake Griffin wear some pretty goofy clothes at press conferences. The policy is still in effect; since you don’t seem to know what it actually is, read **brickbacon** ’s post. I also find some of those clothes goofy looking, but they’re in fashion. And the general public doesn’t find them uncomfortably black, which is what counts here. ---
**Author:** ![Roundabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dec6dc/32.png) [@Roundabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roundabout)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/345 "2014-05-03T07:46:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I have no idea what **Roundabout** thinks he is saying, and after all it was a drive-by. The comparison is dumb because nobody ends up in the NBA unless they choose to be there, and the players are very well compensated for their labor. It’s not accurate to say guys like Donald Sterling own the players. They own the teams. They are the player’s employers. When you dig into the details and the attitudes of people like Sterling, there are some comparisons you can make, but in general it’s just daft. It’s a different story when we’re talking about the NCAA, where the players get very little for their labor. I meant only in the sense of ownership in proportion to the athletes, and the attitude of some of those owners despite profiteering off of them. Admittedly it was a bit exaggerated a comment, but it was offhand and never meant to be taken so literally. And yes, I’d have to agree about the far far worse treatment of college athletes. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/346 "2014-05-03T18:18:30Z")
I have a quick question. There has been talk about Sterlings comments regarding how jews treat blacks, and I believe he was referring to jews in Israel, however, I could be wrong. Questions Is there a large population of black jews in Israel (or anywhere else for that matter?) Was Sterlings reference to black jews a slang word/phrase for a jew considered in a different class than a wealthy jew? Sorry if this has been discussed. Did I hear this correctly Vis-a-vis Sterlings comments, or did I pick something up from someone else’s interpretation of his comments? If this is correct, what did he mean, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/347 "2014-05-03T18:41:15Z")
I don’t think he referred either to Jews of Black Jews, specifically. He said something like “In Israel, they treat blacks like dogs.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/348 "2014-05-03T19:39:04Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Is there a large population of black jews in Israel (or anywhere else for that matter?) I think there is a fairly sizable population of Ethiopian Jews, including in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/349 "2014-05-03T21:40:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t think he referred either to Jews of Black Jews, specifically. He said something like “In Israel, they treat blacks like dogs.” Thank you for explaining. This sounds like what I heard. Are there a lot of black people in Israel? Or are they a significant minority? The Ethiopian Jews that **jsgoddess** mentions. Are they the only blacks in Israel? Or are their other black people living in Israel that aren’t jewish at all? And what was Sterlings point for mentioning this at all? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/350 "2014-05-03T21:58:02Z")
This is the transcript. > [@](#): > > DS: It’s the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs. > > V: So do you have to treat them like that too? > > DS: The white Jews, there’s white Jews and black Jews, do you understand? > > V: And are the black Jews less than the white Jews? > > DS: A hundred percent, fifty, a hundred percent. > > V: And is that right? > > DS: It isn’t a question—we don’t evaluate what’s right and wrong, we live in a society. We live in a culture. We have to live within that culture. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/351 "2014-05-03T22:10:43Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > This sounds like what I heard. Are there a lot of black people in Israel? Or are they a significant minority? > > The Ethiopian Jews that **jsgoddess** mentions. Are they the only blacks in Israel? Or are their other black people living in Israel that aren’t jewish at all? If I recall correctly there are now more Ethiopian Jews living in Israel than in Ethiopia these days. Such Jews are very dark skinned and yes, are thus “black Jews”. There was a big airlift call “Operation Moses” to transport a lot (most?) of them to Israel, and a couple other efforts to bring the Falashim from Sudan as well. There were definitely some problems surrounding this immigration, undoubtedly some was racism but there were cultural (the Jewish community there was isolated from other Jews for long periods) and educational gulfs (illiteracy was apparently the norm among many, few spoke or read Hebrew, etc.) as well as the usual psychological aftermath of war, famine, etc., that made it difficult for many of them to integrate into Israeli society and hold down steady jobs. With time a lot of problems are diminishing, although it would be wrong to say they’ve gone away. The generation after immigration is doing better than their parents, no doubt because they know Hebrew, have an education suited to the modern world, and never had to endure the culture shock undergone by their parents. Both scholarly research and some recent DNA testing have been provided evidence that they are related to other Jews and have been practicing Judaism for thousands of years. Of course they’re also related to other people they live among, but then, the Sephardim are related to Western Europeans and the Ashkenazim are related to Eastern Europeans, two groups which also have somewhat differing customs. There are definitely a few hold outs, but most Jews accept the Falashim as fellow Jews. I’d be _really_ surprised if there weren’t gentile black people living in Israel given the proximity to Africa. > [@](#): > > And what was Sterlings point for mentioning this at all? I haven’t listened to the entire recording of what was said, but I gather the lady involved said soething along the lines that Sterling was Jewish and should thus know something about discrimination, at which point he start on about how black Jews are treated like crap in Israel. Like I said, there are racists Jews, but there are also plenty of lighter-skinned Jews who are nothing at all like the racist Sterling clearly is. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/352 "2014-05-04T06:59:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’d be _really_ surprised if there weren’t gentile black people living in Israel given the proximity to Africa. There tens of thousands of illegal African immigrants in Israel mostly Sudanese and Eritrean refugees. It’s only logical - if you’re trying to get out of Africa on foot, Israel is where you’ll end up. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/353 "2014-05-04T18:53:00Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There tens of thousands of illegal African immigrants in Israel mostly Sudanese and Eritrean refugees. It’s only logical - if you’re trying to get out of Africa on foot, Israel is where you’ll end up. Tens of thousands? Really? I never heard about this issue. Is this considered a major problem in Israel? I would think Israel would have very tight borders. I never imagined they would have an illegal immigration problem. I know this is a bit off-topic, (ok, completely), but what is Israel doing to address this issue? Anything at all, or are they just trying to “absorb” them as best they can? ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/354 "2014-05-04T18:56:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Both scholarly research and some recent DNA testing have been provided evidence that they are related to other Jews and have been practicing Judaism for thousands of years. How does DNA testing prove they have been practicing Judaism for thousands of years? This is actually interesting to me. Did the Israeli government actually do DNA testing on these people to “prove” that they are jewish? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/355 "2014-05-04T22:49:47Z")
[V. Stivano: the blackest “delicate white girl” in the world.](http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/v-stiviano-attended-the-same-high-school-as-donald-and-rochelle-sterling) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069/356 "2014-05-04T23:27:59Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > How does DNA testing prove they have been practicing Judaism for thousands of years? It doesn’t prove they’ve been _practicing_ Judaism for thousands of years, what it proves is that they are _related_ to other Jews. There are certain small mutations found most frequently among Jews, including one also found most frequently among the subset of Jews known as Cohens. The Falashism have a relatively high percentage of these in their population, which means that most likely they are, indeed, related in the sense of common ancestry to other Jewish groups. > [@](#): > > This is actually interesting to me. Did the Israeli government actually do DNA testing on these people to “prove” that they are jewish? Yes. This happened after the big airlift of Falashim into Israel. That was done based on scholarly research into old historical records and comparing the Falashim version of the Bible and Torah and their customs with those of other Jewish groups which provided sufficient evidence that they were genuinely Jewish to the Israeli government. There was some continuing quibbling over whether they were descendants of Jews immigrating from the Levant or descendants of converts with little genetic relationship to other Jews, but when DNA testing became less expensive and more practical some testing was done. While almost certainly there were some converts from the surrounding African peoples there is also a very definite genetic connection between Jews in the Horn of Africa and Jews in the Levant. I think the consensus is now that they are the “lost” tribe of Dan which, if that is true, isn’t so lost any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-owners-racism-exposed/687069.md?page=17)