# NBA Players Attack Fans at NBA Game **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822 "2004-11-20T11:52:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/1 "2004-11-20T11:52:37Z")
Indiana Pacers’ players Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson clambered over rows of seats to attack Detroit Pistons’ fans after a water bottle landed on Artest. The assault happened after a free-for-all had brought the match to an early conclusion with less than a minute remaining on the clock after a player had retaliated after being fouled. With Eric Cantona receiving an 8 month ban for aiming a kick at a fan at a football game in London 10 years ago, what can these players expect for their actions? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/2 "2004-11-20T12:06:14Z")
It’s a three point play! [HOLY CRAP! Anybody see the Pacers-Pistons game?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=287672) [Holy balls almighty (Pistons-Pacers riot)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=287674) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/3 "2004-11-20T12:15:31Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > It’s a three point play! From three… YES!!! Of course, this thread doesn’t have “holy” in the title and says nothing about crap or balls. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/4 "2004-11-20T13:30:49Z")
What really steams me is the take the ESPN NBA analysts tried to shift blame away from the players by calling it “self defense”. Give me a break. Artest was only hit by a beverage cup. Sure, any fan that throws _anything_ onto the field of play or at a player should be removed from the arena and prosecuted for his actions, but to think Ron Artest was in any physical danger _before_ he chased after the guy (no one has reported that there was more than a single fan) is plain stupid. Artest managed to raise the incident form an emotional fan response to a small-scale riot. And the ESPN talking heads have the nerve to keep blaming the fans and the security. If Artest had told security (who have a heavy presence around a visiting team) what happened they would have, at minimum, had a good chat with the guy. In my opinion, Artest should a get minimum suspension of 20 games. I also think that both teams should be assessed a forfeit—Detroit for the action of their fans, and Indiana for fighting with the fans. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/5 "2004-11-20T15:46:34Z")
> [@Threadkiller](#): > > What really steams me is the take the ESPN NBA analysts tried to shift blame away from the players by calling it “self defense”. Give me a break. Artest was only hit by a beverage cup. > > Sure, any fan that throws _anything_ onto the field of play or at a player should be removed from the arena and prosecuted for his actions, but to think Ron Artest was in any physical danger _before_ he chased after the guy (no one has reported that there was more than a single fan) is plain stupid. > > Artest managed to raise the incident form an emotional fan response to a small-scale riot. And the ESPN talking heads have the nerve to keep blaming the fans and the security. If Artest had told security (who have a heavy presence around a visiting team) what happened they would have, at minimum, had a good chat with the guy. > > In my opinion, Artest should a get minimum suspension of 20 games. I also think that both teams should be assessed a forfeit—Detroit for the action of their fans, and Indiana for fighting with the fans. This should give him time to promote his rap album. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/6 "2004-11-20T16:55:39Z")
The clip I saw shows Artest decking a fan on the floor with no physical provocation. It’s kind of amazing that ESPN’s talking heads would try to spin that. Artest is going to have to hope for a successful rap album just to pay the legal team and following lawsuits as his game check will be gone for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/7 "2004-11-20T17:30:19Z")
> [@Threadkiller](#): > > What really steams me is the take the ESPN NBA analysts tried to shift blame away from the players by calling it “self defense”. Give me a break. Artest was only hit by a beverage cup. > > Sure, any fan that throws _anything_ onto the field of play or at a player should be removed from the arena and prosecuted for his actions, but to think Ron Artest was in any physical danger _before_ he chased after the guy (no one has reported that there was more than a single fan) is plain stupid. > > Artest managed to raise the incident form an emotional fan response to a small-scale riot. And the ESPN talking heads have the nerve to keep blaming the fans and the security. If Artest had told security (who have a heavy presence around a visiting team) what happened they would have, at minimum, had a good chat with the guy. > > In my opinion, Artest should a get minimum suspension of 20 games. I also think that both teams should be assessed a forfeit—Detroit for the action of their fans, and Indiana for fighting with the fans. The nitwits on ESPN cheesed me off too. Sure, Artest was in grave personal danger from a plastic cup of cheap beer. :rolleyes: I’m predicting assault charges, one or two lawsuits, and a full season suspension for Artest and Jackson and one to three game suspensions for the players involved in the pre-riot riot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/8 "2004-11-20T18:16:31Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > The clip I saw shows Artest decking a fan on the floor with no physical provocation. That guy was an idiot. The fight had been going on for several minutes, they’d pulled Artest out of the stands, and he ran up to him on the court (and according to papers, he was yelling at him). What he could have been thinking is beyond me, and I think that’s the guy’s fault. Artest didn’t really hurt him, but Jermaine O’Neal decked him a moment later. I don’t think there’s any one party who deserves the majority of the blame here, but I’m glad ESPN isn’t sucking up to the fans and overlooing their role. The situation on the court was calming down and even if Artest’s actions are inexcusable, none of this happens if that moron doesn’t hit him with a beer. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/9 "2004-11-20T18:40:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That guy was an idiot. The fight had been going on for several minutes, they’d pulled Artest out of the stands, and he ran up to him on the court (and according to papers, he was yelling at him). What he could have been thinking is beyond me, and I think that’s the guy’s fault. Artest didn’t really hurt him, but Jermaine O’Neal decked him a moment later. I agree that the guy was an idiot, but that’s where it ends. Yelling at Artest or not doesn’t matter. If it’s offensive, it’s security’s job to handle it. Hell, yell back if you want. Self defense isn’t going to fly in any way when Artest swinging first is clearly on film. It wouldn’t shock me if the Pacers just flushed their season down the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/10 "2004-11-20T18:42:34Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > I agree that the guy was an idiot, but that’s where it ends. Yelling at Artest or not doesn’t matter. If it’s offensive, it’s security’s job to handle it. Hell, yell back if you want. Self defense isn’t going to fly in any way when Artest swinging first is clearly on film. I don’t know what’ll fly and what didn’t. There had already been a small-scale riot going for at least five minutes, and Artest had been surrounded by fans throwing punches and garbage. This guy confronted him on the floor. What the hell else was going to happen? It might not fit as self-defense, but I don’t think there was any other conceivable outcome. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/11 "2004-11-20T19:42:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know what’ll fly and what didn’t. There had already been a small-scale riot going for at least five minutes, and Artest had been surrounded by fans throwing punches and garbage. This guy confronted him on the floor. What the hell else was going to happen? It might not fit as self-defense, but I don’t think there was any other conceivable outcome. How about Artest getting lead back to the locker room since his ass was already in enough trouble? Go to [msnbc.com](http://msnbc.com) and watch the video from the front page. I see Artest throw punches at three fans. The first didn’t seem to swing at him. The second punched him first after trying to hold on to him for about 10 seconds. He probably was the most stupid of the fans I saw. It’s hard to say if the last guy threw a punch or not, but Artest clearly swings first. It looks like the last guy said exactly one sentence before Artest swung. It seems like at least two other Pacers players threw punches at fans without being swung at. Call the fans idiots as much as you want, that’s still inexcusable. If you’re a Pacers fan, say goodbye to at least a quarter of your team for a while. ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/12 "2004-11-20T19:43:54Z")
_lead_ should be _led_ of course… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/13 "2004-11-20T23:15:57Z")
I must confess, I love seeing a brawl at organized sporting events on TV, but I saw a pile of people slowly disengage . . at the bottom of the pile was an older lady who looked terrified. I wonder if anyone else saw that and if they knew who the lady was and how she happened to get caught up in that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/14 "2004-11-21T00:37:48Z")
I’ll watch the video online if I can, but I did see this happen live and saw some coverage. Artest did punch several people, I was only talking about the last guy, the one in the Pistons jersey on the court. I’m not trying to take Artest off the hook for anything, but the guy may have been looking for a fight or maybe he was just trying to wise off- either way it’s a totally stupid thing to do under the circumstances. Stephen Jackson may be the biggest punk in my mind. He just ran into the stands and started swinging away at anybody he could. And O’Neal didn’t need to hit the guy who’d gone after Artest either. O’Neal, Artest and Jackson are all suspended indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/15 "2004-11-21T00:39:28Z")
I wonder: why are you guys aren’t talking about Jermaine O’Neal’s role in this? He was all over the place, knocking out fans left and right. I was wondering: Artest reacting like that I semi-understand, but O’Neal…he acted like he had it in against the fans since the Eastern Conference championships from last year. The guy on the floor with the Pistons shirt, who was double-decked by both Artest and O’Neal, was in No Fan’s Land. He wasn’t the ballboy; he didn’t belong there at all. With the nearest security 100 feet away, and from what happened before, Artest can’t afford to react to what the fan was about to do. So he pre-emptively cold-cocked him. And at least two of the Detroit fans were swinging sucker punches ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/16 "2004-11-21T01:16:21Z")
> [@capacitor](#): > > I wonder: why are you guys aren’t talking about Jermaine O’Neal’s role in this? He was all over the place, knocking out fans left and right. I was wondering: Artest reacting like that I semi-understand, but O’Neal…he acted like he had it in against the fans since the Eastern Conference championships from last year. > > The guy on the floor with the Pistons shirt, who was double-decked by both Artest and O’Neal, was in No Fan’s Land. He wasn’t the ballboy; he didn’t belong there at all. With the nearest security 100 feet away, and from what happened before, Artest can’t afford to react to what the fan was about to do. So he pre-emptively cold-cocked him. > > And at least two of the Detroit fans were swinging sucker punches From what I saw of the dude in the Pistons shirt, he said something to Artest who replied with a right. Dude took the punch and fired back with one or two of his own, not bad for kind of a stocky pale dude. Then O’Neal took him down. As for O’Neal, I hadn’t seen much of him. I noticed Artest and Jackson, and they seem to be getting the most words dedicated to 'em. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/17 "2004-11-21T03:09:49Z")
Is anybody else amazed that Rasheed Wallace kept his head and tried to get the fans off the Pacers? I always pictured him as “most likely to grab a folding chair and hit somebody with it” in a mini-riot situation. What I didn’t like about ESPN was their carping about their not being enough security at the arena. Security had everything under control until they had to go out into the stands to bring the players back. No fans would have gotten onto the court if security didn’t have to rescue the people they were trying to protect. And if the guy that Artest went after initially is the guy who hit him with a beer, that had to be a record throw in the “beer cup shot put” event. -lv ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/18 "2004-11-21T14:34:01Z")
> [@capacitor](#): > > I wonder: why are you guys aren’t talking about Jermaine O’Neal’s role in this? He was all over the place, knocking out fans left and right. I didn’t know which of the other Pacers players were which in the video I saw, other than Artest. The quality wasn’t the greatest. There were several Pacers players who’s actions are impossible to defend. I agree with pretty much everyone that a few of the fans were idiots. There is no surprise there. Someone else mentioned other fans (an old woman) getting caught in the middle. This kind of thing should never happen. There is no other way to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/19 "2004-11-21T14:36:37Z")
The talking twits at ESPN _still_ don’t get it. Several of them are quoted in [here](http://www.indystar.com/articles/9/196475-5069-036.html): > [@](#): > > “If you’re walking down the street in Times Square and someone throws a beer on you, it’s assault and you have the right to defend yourself.” > > “Everybody is to blame, the fans in particular.” > > “Forgive me, though, but it’s perfectly understandable why (Artest) charged that fan. It’s perfectly understandable why (Stephen) Jackson punched a fan. It was perfectly understandable why (Jermaine) O’Neal punched a fan in the face, as well.” Of course these guys deal with the NBA players on a day-to-day basis but this level of sucking up is outrageous. For a counterview on security read the [comment to ESPN](http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=1927371) > [@](#): > > As a former security guard at the Spectrum, I have to say Ron Artest was completely out of line. That fan that threw the beverage would’ve been dealt with accordingly by security and police, a slap on the wrist and a small fine - possibly a few hours in the tank. There was absolutely no reason for Artest to go up into the stands, he could’ve simply pointed the bad fan out. But I don’t even know that Artest ATTACKED the right fan. As soon as an opposing player goes into the stands it becomes an attack on ALL the fans - and they’re going to defend themselves. I’ve dealt with plenty of beverage tossers and nothing like this has ever even come close to happening because the players always blew it off like professionals should. If this is the darkest day in NBA history, it is Ron Artest who will be remembered, not popcorn throwing fans. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822/20 "2004-11-21T14:42:43Z")
Jesus, what ever happened to “getting even?” Artest gave that S.O.B. what he deserved. Remove all context from this situation, all the external factors of the game, and what you ultimately have is a guy throwing something at another guy and getting hit for it. Isn’t that basically what you should expect in all areas of life? Throw something at someone, and you ought to expect to a physical response in kind. The fact that I’m a Hoosier doesn’t influence my perspective on this at all. Do a dick thing to someone and you deserve the same done back to you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-players-attack-fans-at-nba-game/275822.md?page=2)