# NBA ref caught fixing games **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 23, 2007, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807 "2007-07-23T04:08:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/21 "2007-07-23T19:53:46Z")
[QUOTE=Dante] See, this is why I only watch boxing. [/QUOTE] I know, right? I only watch professional wrestling. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/22 "2007-07-23T20:03:05Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] I know, right? I only watch professional wrestling. [/QUOTE] Damn, 10 minutes too slow. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/23 "2007-07-24T01:02:04Z")
[QUOTE=Threadkiller] How is your failure to win at gambling ‘obviously’ the fault of ‘this’? I assume you are talking about the officiating. [/QUOTE] I can’t stand using smilies, but I guess I should’ve used one in this particular case. I know sarcasm doesn’t translate well in text, but I thought it was obvious I was being facetious. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/24 "2007-07-24T01:50:45Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] You just allegedly libeled **gonzomax**. [/QUOTE] 🆒 [QUOTE=adam yax] And like RickJay pointed out, all of a sudden Mark Cuban doesn’t look like a raving conspiracy theorist anymore. [/quote] … about this. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/25 "2007-07-24T01:52:59Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Congratulations, you’ve just libeled someone. He is **accused** of fixing games. [/QUOTE] No, he hasn’t. He’s repeated charges made by a third party, and expressed his belief that the charges are true. That’s not libel. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/26 "2007-07-24T23:28:51Z")
Commish called him a rogue criminal today. Says he is the only one. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/27 "2007-07-25T01:21:56Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Commish called him a rogue criminal today. Says he is the only one. [/QUOTE] I hope commish is right, and knows what he’s talking about, and that this isn’t just desperate damage control. Some ESPN talking heads were pointing out yesterday that there’s a limit on how much sway one referee, working without the other two’s cooperation (or at least knowledge) could inflict on a game. I kind of agree. I would have to cock an eyebrow at a referee who worked multiple games with Donaghy and claimed that they had no idea what was going on. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/28 "2007-07-25T01:31:31Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Commish called him a rogue criminal today. Says he is the only one. [/QUOTE] This is exactly the sort of thing Stern should not have said. Now if Donaghy ISN’T the only one, it will appear Stern was lying. He should have stuck to the “We’re investigating and will clean this up” mantra. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/29 "2007-07-25T02:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] This is exactly the sort of thing Stern should not have said. Now if Donaghy ISN’T the only one, it will appear Stern was lying. He should have stuck to the “We’re investigating and will clean this up” mantra. [/QUOTE] My guess is he wouldn’t have said this if he didn’t know for sure- how he would get this info, I don’t know. I heard today that the NBA had investigated the ref a year ago for illicit activity, which if true, means the alleged activity is exclusively within the last tear, or the NBA investigators aren’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/30 "2007-07-25T02:27:30Z")
Commish denied that he was under suspicion and watched for a year. That would have been a confession that they allowed a dirty ref to work for a year. What happens to the ref. ?There are a lot of people who bet games. If you lost a few thou on a game it would be easy to blame the crooked ref. He better be careful wherever he goes. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/31 "2007-07-25T02:41:57Z")
I was listening to someone who does a lot of sports betting earlier today. He thinks that what an investigation will show is that the calls were being made to influence the total points scored and not the spread. It makes sense to me, since it’d be even easier to change the game total with an extra foul call or two. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/32 "2007-07-25T02:56:04Z")
An online bookie crunched some numbers and found that the ref’s games went over the spread 57% of the time, which, according to him, was something like a 9000-to-1 shot. That’s in the regular season, though. In the playoffs, the numbers are a lot more palatable, and almost neutral. He’s also the ref that throws out the most fouls and technicals in the league. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/33 "2007-07-25T13:21:07Z")
I see now that Stern says two years ago he was investigated for making bets at a casino, but it couldn’t be proven. Wouldn’t you pay a guy to tail him anyway, just to be absolutely sure? The 100K private dick salary would be peanuts in hindsight. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/34 "2007-07-25T13:46:34Z")
I think it damages NBA/referee credibility in two ways. One is of course the concern that it could happen again. But the other reason it hurts the league is that the league has made numerous statements about how much oversight and scrutiny they give their referees to ensure every call is correct. If that’s true, why didn’t anyone note that this ref was consistently making bad calls? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/35 "2007-07-25T13:52:10Z")
[QUOTE=Quercus] I think it damages NBA/referee credibility in two ways. One is of course the concern that it could happen again. But the other reason it hurts the league is that the league has made numerous statements about how much oversight and scrutiny they give their referees to ensure every call is correct. If that’s true, why didn’t anyone note that this ref was consistently making bad calls? [/QUOTE] Excellent point- if in hindsight you can see the calls were wrong, why couldn’t they see them then? NBATV has a regular show where the head of the refs analyzes calls and explains why they are correct or incorrect. Mike Greenberg on ESPN just said there are examples of his more obvious bad calls on you tube- one supposedly shows him making a foul call on Manu Ginboli when he was “50 feet away, and two seconds after alleged contact, when in fact there was no contact at all”. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/36 "2007-07-25T14:05:47Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] He’s also the ref that throws out the most fouls and technicals in the league. [/QUOTE] That was the first thing that came to mind when I heard who it was: he’s the guy who techs _everyone_. Is there some little-known over-under on technical fouls that he’s been manipulating? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/37 "2007-07-25T14:15:30Z")
[QUOTE=Quercus] If that’s true, why didn’t anyone note that this ref was consistently making bad calls? [/QUOTE] We don’t know how many calls he made with the specific intent of changing the game’s outcome. Compared to calls he would have made anyway, they could be a blip. In theory, I guess there’s also the possibility that he sometimes made the ‘right’ calls for the wrong reasons: if he chose to call a foul that was correct, but might have normally been overlooked because of the style of the game or the styles of his crewmates, would that call be right or wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/38 "2007-07-25T14:16:36Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] That was the first thing that came to mind when I heard who it was: he’s the guy who techs _everyone_. Is there some little-known over-under on technical fouls that he’s been manipulating? [/QUOTE] I don’t think so, but if you give a star player a technical he has to watch himself for the rest of the game and that could reduce their effectiveness. I think that the league will screw itself beyond repair if they do not do something drastic and dramatic to improve the oversight of the refs. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/39 "2007-07-25T14:19:42Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] That was the first thing that came to mind when I heard who it was: he’s the guy who techs _everyone_. Is there some little-known over-under on technical fouls that he’s been manipulating? [/QUOTE] Not that I know of, but this would be a good way to affect the over/under for the total points scored in the game. Extra techs just insert extra free throws into the game, so they’d just raise the total number of points scored. ---
**Author:** ![HelloKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecccb3/32.png) [@HelloKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelloKitty)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807/40 "2007-07-25T14:33:04Z")
I think this is hugely detrimental to the league. There has always been allegations that “someone is paying off the refs”, now it appears that these allegations have basis in fact. It’s hard to believe this ref could be “one rogue criminal” like Stern is saying. This ref was highly rated by the leagues own standards…he ref’d playoff games!!! So you can’t tell me that if he was in on some point shaving or whatever they were having them do that he was the only one. I hope he does name names and get all of this out in the open so the slate can be cleared. I’m sorry but to me this is worse than steroids!! A player can take all the steroids in the world but if the refs are calling him for phantom technicals it won’t matter. The NBA should have to refund Mark Cuban all those fines if this all turns out to be true. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-caught-fixing-games/412807.md?page=1)