# NBA ref says he conspired with players and refs to fix games **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 20, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001 "2008-05-20T18:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/41 "2008-05-25T02:15:05Z")
Players come and go. The league can live on if players are doing something wrong. Easily replaced and it does not threaten the game. If 20 refs are involved in fixing it could kill the game. The original stories implicated 20 refs. After a LEAGUE investigation they were not found to be fixers. I think an independent investigation was called for. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/42 "2008-05-25T02:31:55Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] If 20 refs are involved in fixing it could kill the game. The original stories implicated 20 refs. [/quote] Again, in GAMBLING, not game fixing. > [@](#): > > I think an independent investigation was called for. So you believe that U.S. prosecutors just ignored what Donaghy was saying? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/43 "2008-05-26T17:24:40Z")
AGAIN that is what the league says. That is not what Donaghy said. I knew before the investigation that the refs would be whitewashed. They had to be. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/44 "2008-05-26T17:44:14Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] AGAIN that is what the league says. That is not what Donaghy said. [/quote] What are you talking about? It sounds like you’re not reading carefully, because so far, _nobody_ has said the refs fixed games. A year ago, Donaghy said others were involved in gambling, and now he’s saying some passed information to coaches. The only one who interprets all this stuff as “fixed” is you, and the league isn’t the source for any of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/45 "2008-05-28T12:33:56Z")
Last night’s final play is a perfect example of horrible and inconsistent refereeing that is plaguing the NBA. It’s not an example of a pre-determined final, just the on-going reticence of the refs to blow a whistle and let a foul determine a game which makes so little sense it hurts my head. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/46 "2008-05-28T15:02:30Z")
> **[Lawyer and N.B.A. Are Trading Insults (Published 2008)](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/sports/basketball/21referee.html?ref=sports)** > > While the former N.B.A. referee Tim Donaghy awaits his fate in federal court, his lawyer and league officials are trading accusations through the courts and the news media. Donaghys lawyer has filed papers suggesting that info was passed from refs to coaches and players too. He all says the games were not played on a level playing field. He was allowed to ref for another year after the investigation started. Does that make you wonder if the integrity of the game is prime or is it appearances. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/47 "2008-05-28T15:21:30Z")
[QUOTE=Mullinator] Last night’s final play is a perfect example of horrible and inconsistent refereeing that is plaguing the NBA. It’s not an example of a pre-determined final, just the on-going reticence of the refs to blow a whistle and let a foul determine a game which makes so little sense it hurts my head. [/QUOTE] Eh i don’t know, as a completely unbiased observer i felt it was a good no call. Barry should have gone up with the shot rather than trying to dribble around him then throwing up that unbalanced shot. I think Barkley was right for once when he said that making that call would be the ref deciding who won the game rather than the players. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/48 "2008-05-28T18:06:52Z")
The foul inhibited the shot. He could not shoot it . I saw a foul . ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/49 "2008-05-28T18:12:05Z")
[QUOTE=DigitalC] I think Barkley was right for once when he said that making that call would be the ref deciding who won the game rather than the players. [/QUOTE] Allowing a foul to inhibit a shot, without calling it, affects the game just as much as calling a foul. At most, they should require a clear foul at the end of the game, though one could argue they should be looking for that throughout the game. It’s only slightly worse to have a phantom foul call than to have a clear foul go uncalled. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/50 "2008-05-28T20:06:39Z")
[QUOTE=Mullinator] By that rationale … [e]very Dallas Maverick in 1991 was a druggie. [/QUOTE] That one is probably true. I mean, did you ever watch the '91 Mavs play basketball? Or whatever it is they called what they did on the court? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/51 "2008-05-29T02:37:45Z")
[QUOTE=SCSimmons] That one is probably true. I mean, did you ever watch the '91 Mavs play basketball? Or whatever it is they called what they did on the court? 😛 [/QUOTE] Good point. Towels covered in Tarpley sweat would probably be able to get a busload full of nuns high. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/52 "2008-05-29T22:40:15Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] The foul inhibited the shot. He could not shoot it . I saw a foul . [/QUOTE] Did you see the missed call on the previous possession that went against the Lakers? The ball hit the rim, then Horry, then went out of bounds. It should have been Lakers ball with 24 seconds on the shot clock, forcing the Spurs to fowl. Instead, the Lakers got it with 2 seconds on the shot clock and had to put up a quick shot. Bad calls are part of the game. There will be a few borderline calls (like the ball nicking the rim or Barry and Fisher making contact during a shot) gong each way in every game, and an occasional egregious blown call. The stars like Jordan, Bryant, or Wade may get a little more benefit of the doubt, but there’s no reason to believe the refs are out fix the game and create a Lakers v Celtics finals. Those are just the two best teams in their divisions right now and are the likely Finals matchup. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/53 "2008-05-30T14:15:00Z")
I think our refs are under great scrutiny right now. No ref would be dumb enough to fix anything now. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/54 "2008-05-31T18:05:42Z")
[QUOTE=HookerChemical] Bad calls are part of the game. There will be a few borderline calls (like the ball nicking the rim or Barry and Fisher making contact during a shot) gong each way in every game, and an occasional egregious blown call. The stars like Jordan, Bryant, or Wade may get a little more benefit of the doubt, but there’s no reason to believe the refs are out fix the game and create a Lakers v Celtics finals. Those are just the two best teams in their divisions right now and are the likely Finals matchup. [/QUOTE] You know, I was completely in the “No conspiracy other than giving stars every possible benefit of the doubt (and maybe even a little more)” camp. But after Bennett Salvatore’s performance last night (Celtics-Pistons, game 6), I’m almost ready to entertain other theories, particularly ones that explain how he still has a job with the league. Because, while I understand that NBA refereeing is one of the hardest jobs in existence, I find it hard to believe that a league truly committed to quality officiating would continue employing him. I am almost ready to believe that either the NBA really wants to have a referee available who can be relied on to blatantly call a game for the home team (for instance, when stretching a series by one more game will result in extra revenue for the league), or Salvatore has some seriously embarassing pictures of David Stern in a safe-deposit box somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/55 "2008-06-01T21:11:39Z")
Celtics and Lakers,who would have thunk it. Just the match up the league wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/56 "2008-06-11T00:41:27Z")
A bump, but a relevant bump: [Donaghy is now claiming tampering in two series, and, while he hasn’t named them, there are clues as to which ones he has in mind](http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aih9WXU2vhYIv7hw5td.ibU5nYcB?slug=txdonaghyscandal&prov=st&type=lgns) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/57 "2008-06-11T01:53:15Z")
[http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8231176/Report:-Donaghy-says-refs-fixed-playoff-series](http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8231176/Report:-Donaghy-says-refs-fixed-playoff-series) Heres an update. Dohergty claims it was with collaboration of the league. That is how the games felt. Last game 38 to 10 in fouls. That can happen but sometimes you leave a game feeling something was not right . ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/58 "2008-06-11T12:55:24Z")
If any bit of these latest claims can be supported, basketball as a sport is in serious danger. It’s one thing to have a player here and there get compromised, it’s another thing entirely to have league officials conspire to change the outcome of games. At that point you’re no longer a sport you’re Pro Wrasslin’. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/59 "2008-06-11T13:56:07Z")
From Michael Wilbon’s column today: > [@](#): > > Stolen? Suspicious? Even if Jackson meant nothing, it’s exactly the kind of talk that is ever-present in NBA circles, even from former coaches and both former and current players. It’s nothing for a player to say to a reporter, “You know the league needs a Game 6 in this series, so we never had a chance tonight.” **It’s something I’ve never heard in 28 years of covering Major League Baseball or the NFL. But it’s a constant part of the NBA, to the point that players inquire all the time about which officials are working certain games.** The fact that even the players don’t trust the integrity of the league is what really makes me wonder. It’s one thing for a player to claim in the passion of the moment after a lose that the refs were at fault. It’s another to fully expect the officiating to be unfair because of pressure from the front office. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001/60 "2008-06-11T14:42:42Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Celtics and Lakers,who would have thunk it. Just the match up the league wanted. [/QUOTE] I think if you had real confidence games were being fixed, you would have made this post _before_ the conference finals ended, not after. You know what I mean? This needs to be seriously investigated, obviously, but I still think it’s most likely the work of a guy who is desperate to snitch and a lawyer who’s trying to create doubt about the conditions his client worked in. We’ll see what happens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-ref-says-he-conspired-with-players-and-refs-to-fix-games/450001.md?page=4)